asked the Minister for Industry, Trade, Commerce and Tourism if he accepts the method of discount schemes as operated by motor insurers to be in the best interest of the consumer; and the steps he proposes recommending to bring about a more equitable system.

I have on a number of occasions expressed my reservations on these types of discount schemes. The Deputy may be aware that on foot of the report of the Prices Advisory Body on motor insurance, the Government indicated in October 1983 that I would seek to ensure that those firms running special discount schemes will not be allowed to subsidise such schemes from the pocket of the general motorist, and such special schemes will stand or fall on their own underwriting results. Scrutiny of such schemes takes place in the context of applications made to me either for price increases on the general motor account, or for increases in the premium rates charged for these special schemes. It is noteworthy that within the past year or so two such schemes effectively ended, and the price increases granted in a number of other schemes — based on the underwriting results of the schemes — were substantially in excess of the increase allowed on the general motor account.

Is the Minister aware that it is the perception of the general public that young drivers are being discriminated against which, in effect, means that it can be more expensive to insure a vehicle than to buy it? Would he agree that this has an effect on a number of individuals who are prepared to run the risk of driving uninsured vehicles? Will the Minister accept my recommendation that it would be more equitable to divide the total amount of people seeking insurance in the under-25 age bracket amongst all the insurers, pro rata to the number of insured they have on their books? Would he recommend that to the insurers?

The question raised by the Deputy is an entirely different one from that he put down. The question on the Order Paper is in relation to discount schemes. I have stated quite clearly that, in relation to any such discount schemes, they must stand on their own underwriting results and that my Department will not allow the general motorist, including the under-25 policy-holders, to subsidise these general schemes. The question of the treatment of young motorists under the age of 25 is not the subject matter of this question.

While it may not be directly mentioned in the question put down, it certainly is related.

I think it would more correctly arise on Question No. 15.

I would like to ask the Minister a final supplementary with regard to the discount schemes. Would he agree that it is showing preferential treatment to sections of the community who are best able to bear the burden of the insurance rate, that perhaps if there was a more equitable system of dividing out the total amount of insurance that has to be written in this country we could have a more equitable and even system and that, consequently, more people would be insuring their cars?

On the contrary the insurance companies' experience with their specialised discount schemes has not been successful. As I said in my reply, two such schemes have been ended. As I said also in my reply, my Department will take every step necessary to ensure that the general body of policyholders on the motoring side of the industry will not be subsidising these special schemes. That would apply also to the younger policyholders. In that way they are secured to a certain extent, in that whatever losses are incurred under the special discount schemes will have to be borne by the discount schemes policyholders.

Would the Minister state what were the two discount schemes that have been suspended and the reason given by the insurers for their suspension?

I would prefer not to do so. I would prefer not to answer that because that would be breaking the confidentiality——

In his reply the Minister said that in the past year or so two such schemes have effectively been ended. It is only reasonable to ask him to specify the two schemes that have been terminated. That is not all that difficult. Perhaps the Minister would indicate the two schemes to which he referred. That is not an unreasonable request.

Rather than give the names of the schemes in public — because I feel that companies are entitled to confidentiality in their dealings with my Department — I will happily give the names of the two schemes to the Deputy in private if that is acceptable.

Would the Minister indicate whether there are any discount schemes continuing to operate and, if so, how many and whether he is satisfied that they should continue to operate?

There are some other discount schemes in operation. But, as I said in regard to the manner in which they will be treated, it will be such that the losses will be borne by the discount policyholders themselves.

Would the Minister be good enough to let me have particulars privately — I do not want him to put it on the record of the House — of the schemes that continue to exist?

If the Deputy would approach me, I would be happy to discuss the matter with him.

10.