asked the Minister for Industry, Trade, Commerce and Tourism if he is aware that of all the insurance companies (details supplied), only one company will quote insurance cover to a person aged 20 years to insure a car worth £2,000, and for this quoted a premium of £1,032; if he regards this situation as satisfactory; and if he believes that the motor insurance industry is discharging its responsibilities under the declined cases agreement by quoting the terms (details attached) for motor insurance cover to young persons.

It is not possible to say from the details supplied by the Deputy whether the precise premium quoted is correct. However, it would appear to be in line with the basic rates for the company adjusted by the age loading applied by the insurer. As stated in replies to previous questions, the age loadings applied by motor insurers have been found by the Motor Premiums Advisory Committee to be broadly in line with the risk they represent.

The other companies referred to by the Deputy in his question have been written to asking them for specific details about their underwriting policies in relation to young drivers. The matter has also been taken up with the insurers' representative bodies. The information I have received so far indicates that young drivers can get insurance cover, but when I receive detailed information from all insurers I will be in a better position to examine the position.

Is the Minister aware that the companies made an agreement not to refuse motor insurance to any person on the grounds of age alone? Would the Minister agree that in the three months since this question was put down the insurance companies have not responded satisfactorily? Out of the 17 companies I listed only one would insure persons aged under 25 years. Would the Minister not agree that in those circumstances the insurance industry is discriminating seriously against young persons?

The Motor Premiums Advisory Committee accept the fact that the risks are substantially higher for young people because of their claims experience. Young people can have their names added to their father or mother's name on their policy in order to get insurance. I suggest that the Deputy is overdramatising the situation.

He is not.

My information is that many young people are getting insurance.

Will the Minister accept my word that on 1 February through an agent I contacted 17 insurance companies and only one would give insurance to young people under the age of 25 years? Does the Minister accept my word for that?

I bet that insurance company was the PMPA.

It was the only company in Ireland to quote for young drivers.

Would the Minister request the sources where he got that information to investigate the information he has been given? With the best will in the world I think the Minister has been given bad information.

He is being slightly misled.

Perhaps people are not doing their homework. I entirely agree with the question put by Deputy Molony.

The Minister is smiling in recognition of that fact.

Could the Minister name some of the people who sit on the committee that investigated cases which have been declined insurance?

When I have received full information from the people referred to by Deputy Molony I will be better able to assess the situation. I do not think the matter is as serious as the Deputy makes it out to be. I say that in the context that there is a general acceptance that the level of premiums for young people is of its nature higher than the levels of premium for adults or those over 25 years.

Will the Minister tell the House on what basis he regards it as fair that young people should be discriminated against given the fact that people can only start driving under our law at the age of 17 or 18 years? If an analysis was done it may well transpire that people with red hair might be involved in more road traffic accidents than people between the ages of 17 and 23.

Particularly if they are women, according to the old fable.

Is it right that young people should be discriminated against in this way? The Minister will accept that the contents of his reply indicate clearly that young people are being discriminated against.

I do not like the word discriminate.

I do not like it either.

In the insurance industry the rate in respect of any risk must reflect the risk involved. It has been the experience of the insurance industry that it is a loss-making underwriting situation and that the younger the person, especially those under 25 — this has been proved by the PAC — the higher the accident rates. The liabilities on the insurance companies are highest for those categories. I accept that the level of premium must reflect the risk involved. That has always been the case.

The Chair offered to allow me ask a question earlier and I hope he will permit me to do so now.

As long as the Deputy does not report me to Deputy Tunney.

I am not one for reporting people to anybody. I made a recommendation to the Minister that the easiest and quickest way to deal with this problem was for all young people seeking insurance to be divided out equally in proportion to the total motor insurance being written by the companies. That is the fairest way. It will guarantee that young people get a fair quote and that motorists will be insured. What is happening now is that because of the attitude of the insurance companies up to 25 per cent of people using our roads are uninsured. Will the Minister accept our recommendation?

I cannot accept that up to 25 per cent of motorists are uninsured.

That was the Minister's figure last year.

The concept of equalising the numbers throughout the companies is something I cannot dictate. The industry has its right to their own spread of the portfolio. I cannot dictate to them as to what they should do but even if what the Deputy has suggested was carried out it would not necessarily mean that the rates would be reduced for young drivers. The risk will not change. Therefore, there may not be a lot of sense in what the Deputy has said but I am prepared to give the matter consideration.

If it is not voluntary, sooner or later the Minister will have to legislate to force them to do it.

The remaining questions will appear on next Tuesday's Order Paper.