asked the Minister for Industry, Trade, Commerce and Tourism when the paper conversion operation commenced in Clondalkin Paper Mills; the name of the company involved; the total number now employed there; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

13.

asked the Minister for Industry, Trade, Commerce and Tourism if he has received any proposals from FMI, the Canadian company involved in the Clondalkin Paper Mills operation, in regard to the commencement of paper manufacturing there at an early date.

I propose to take Questions Nos. 12 and 13 together.

The date of commencement of paper conversion operations is a matter for the company concerned, FMI International Limited, an Irish registered company. I understand that the company are to commence paper conversion operations within a few days — in fact, this has taken place. I also understand that 11 employees of the company are at present engaged in the preparatory and start-up phase of the project. The company have stated that they hope to increase employment to 35.

The agreement signed by the IDA and the promoters of FMI International Limited on 2 November 1983 provided for implementation of a paper conversion project at Clondalkin Paper Mills; the granting to FMI of an option on the mill, exercisable after a minimum period of nine months operation in paper conversion, subject to a test of viability by the IDA at the time of exercising the option.

Any proposals in respect of the commencement of paper-making will be a matter for the IDA who have the responsibility, under the agreement, of carrying out the test of viability. The authority have informed me that no further proposals have been submitted to them seeking changes in the agreement concerning the commencement of paper-making.

The Minister said in reply to Question No. 11 that there were 35 people employed since yesterday.

No, I did not say that. I said within one month of start-up there would be 35 employees.

There are 11 employed at present?

Yes.

After two or three years negotiations there are now 11 employed in Clondalkin. Has the Minister kept in touch with market conditions for paper manufacture? Is he aware that since last October they have changed dramatically, that prices have increased on three occasions and many companies are unable to meet their orders?

I have made it quite clear at all stages that the commercial assessment and the terms applied in this case are a matter for the Industrial Development Authority. The IDA decided in negotiations with the promoters on this nine-month viability test period. That was not dictated to them by me; it was decided by them.

The Minister decided, on the advice of the IDA.

No, I accepted their view on this matter with any——

The Minister decided——

The Minister decided to get them out of a jam.

May I explain this in case there could be some misunderstanding? There are two elements here: the grants for the project and the giving of finance, which is entirely a matter within the discretion of the IDA. Within my discretion is the making available of the premises. The two are interlocked. You cannot give a premises to a company who do not have a financially viable structure, which they have to have to obtain a grant. I said that if a viable project was decided upon by the IDA in consultation with the company, then the premises would be available. The main decision as far as viability was concerned was taken by the IDA in regard to the financial side, and the making available of the premises, which is within my competence, was contingent on that and followed from it.

On Question No. 13, the Minister said this was the responsibility of the IDA. Has the Minister been in touch with the IDA with regard to the Clondalkin Paper Mills? Has he found out if there is any alteration in the Canadian company's position? Are they more anxious now to start paper manufacturing than they were last October, or are they less anxious about paper conversion——

As I indicated in my reply, there have not been any formal approaches from the company for an abbreviation of the nine-month period. I have been in touch with the IDA about this matter and I will continue to be in touch with them. I am prepared to accept their commercial judgement in a matter of this kind.

Would the Minister accept that there was a ministerial input into this decision and that it was a highly political decision at the end of the day? Would he also agree that the first telephone call made to this Canadian firm was shortly after 6 p.m. on the evening of the vote on the Private Members' Motion?

There were discussions——

Is the Minister denying that — yes or no?

There were discussions with that company for quite some time before that matter ever arose.

The Minister is not denying that. That is enough. I thank him very much. I know what happened.

These discussion took place, some personally, and some by telephone.

Two weeks earlier the Minister said he wanted to have nothing to do with the company.

Would the Deputy please check the record and not be trying to mislead the House?

The remaining questions will appear on tomorrow's Order Paper.