asked the Minister for the Environment if the Electoral Area Boundaries Commission can make recommendations on the extension of boundaries of county borough councils including the proposed Galway County Borough Council; and if legislation will be enacted prior to June 1985 to enable elections to be held within the expanded county borough boundaries.

12.

asked the Minister for the Environment to state the provision which will be made for payment of compensation in the event of areas being transferred from one local authority to another local authority.

13.

asked the Minister for the Environment whether the terms of reference of the Electoral Area Boundaries Commission allow for more than 15 seats on Galway County Borough in the event of substantial additions to the existing borough boundary.

I propose to take Questions Nos. 11, 12 and 13 together.

The terms of reference given to the County and County Borough Electoral Area Boundaries Commission relate mainly to the revision of electoral areas and representation so as to bring about a reasonable relationship between population and representation within each local authority concerned, where this does not already exist.

The commission are also required to consult with the County and County Borough Councils of Cork and Limerick and with the County Council and Borough Council of Galway and, in the light of these consultations, to recommend whether and in what manner the boundaries of the cities in question should be extended.

The intention is that the commission will explore the possibility of local agreement on the question of boundary adjustment so that any agreed changes might be made effective for the local elections to be held in June.

Should the commission make recommendations for the extension of a boundary, they are required to recommend suitable provision for the representation of the area proposed to be added to the city, including, where appropriate, an increase in the membership of the city authority. This applies to Galway as well as to the existing county boroughs concerned.

It would be the aim that legislation would be enacted to give effect to any specific city boundary changes recommended by the commission so that the local elections to be held in June would take place within the expanded boundaries. Provision would be made for financial adjustments in appropriate respects between the city and county authorities in the event of boundary adjustment being effected on the recommendation of the commission.

Is the Minister of State aware of requests made by county councils — I am thinking in particular of Kildare County Council — that the number of councillors should be increased by 50 per cent and also that the town commission and urban district council areas within the county should be enlarged? Can the Minister of State promise that the new areas will be enforced and that the forthcoming elections will be fought in those areas?

Yes, but we are waiting for the commission's proposals. The commission will determine if additional seats are required. Local authorities were asked if they had any recommendations or suggestions to make and these are being taken into account.

The Minister of State is no doubt aware that a certain amount of notice would need to be given to areas where change is contemplated. Just like a greyhound in a box, one would need to know the distance of the race and the course one would be running over before one would be ready. Will this information be available this month as promised?

Included in the commission's terms of reference is the provision that they are to report by the end of February. One can only say they will report by the end of February.

Is the Minister of State confident the legislation will be introduced in time and that the elections will take place in June?

Yes.

Will the Minister of State tell us if the internal changes in electoral boundaries within counties will be a matter on which the commission will report or will it be done at the behest of a Government committee? I am talking about the expansion or contraction of internal electoral areas within a county.

The commission will make their submissions on that matter.

For each county?

Yes.

Will the commission meet representatives of the authorities in the various areas? Is that what the Minister of State said?

I do not think it will be a question of meetings because that will not be feasible. However, an advertisement was placed in the newspapers requesting submissions and they will be taken into account. With regard to meetings, that is a matter for the commission.

In the event of the commission not finding agreement in areas regarding extensions, what will be the position? Who will eventually make the decisions?

I am sure the Deputy has seen previous reports of commissions on electoral boundaries. They are put to Government and the Government have always accepted them. I have no doubt they will accept them again.

Can we get a definite assurance from the Minister of State that in the event of the commission finding wide disagreement in areas regarding extensions, the Government will accept the recommendations of the commission or will they make their own decision afterwards?

It would be rather imprudent of the Government to appoint a commission and then reject their findings. We have appointed a commission and we will accept their findings.

There are many findings still hanging around and nothing has been done about them.

I am merely saying that the precedent is there.

The Minister of State has said that the findings of the commission will be accepted. We had a letter from the Minister's Department asking if we wished to make recommendations. Is there much point in county councillors sending in recommendations if they have to work within the commission's proposals?

There is every point in councillors sending in submissions. All the submissions received will be of help to the commission but it is the commission who will ultimately decide. They have advertised in the newspapers on this matter and I know that they regard it seriously. I have no doubt they will take all recommendations into account.

14.

asked the Minister for the Environment the procedures that will be followed in providing for necessary consequential arrangements in the event of new county and county borough boundaries being established; and whether these will have been implemented prior to the holding of elections in the new areas in June 1985.

15.

asked the Minister for the Enviornment if legislation will be enacted prior to June 1985, to enable elections to take place to the proposed new local authorities in city and county of Dublin.

16.

asked the Minister for the Enviornment if it is proposed to establish a local boundaries commission to deal with extensions and alterations to existing county and city boundaries.

17.

asked the Minister for the Enviornment if it will be necessary to hold public inquiries prior to the introduction of legislation establishing extensions and alterations to borough and county borough boundaries; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

I propose to take Questions Nos. 14, 15, 16 and 17 together.

I would refer the Deputy to my public statement of 11 January on local government reform, copies of which were placed in the Oireachtas Library. I will be bringing forward legislation in the near future to enable effect to be given to the Government's decision that Galway is to become a county borough, and to deal with all the appropriate consequential matters.

The legislation will also enable effect to be given to the recommendations of the two electoral commissions. It is the aim that any revisions of the boundaries of the cities of Cork, Limerick and Galway that may be decided on in the light of any recommendations in specific terms by the commission concerned will be implemented without further inquiry and in time to be reflected at the local elections in June.

The local elections in Dublin in June will be based on the adjusted city area and on the three new county council areas and the proposed legislation will make the necessary provision in this regard. Pending publication of the Bill, I am not in a position to be more specific as to its contents.

As regards urban boundaries generally, I indicated to this House when moving the Vote for 1985 for my Department that I would also in due course be bringing forward further legislation to provide, among other things, for a statutory local government boundary commission to review such boundaries.

I did not realise that these questions were on the Order Paper when I asked the Minister of State about the extension or contraction of internal electoral areas. The Minister of State has said that he will bring forward further legislation with regard to the statutory altering of the boundaries. Is that correct?

A number of towns are slightly out of balance but this matter could not be examined before June. We will set up a statutory boundary commission to consider those cases and all other boundaries.

That will not be done in time for the elections?

No, the local electoral boundaries within a county will be looked at.

What about the extension of urban boundaries?

No, they will not be done before the elections.

What is the position with regard to the extension of county electoral areas?

That will be done if it is needed.

Considerable legislation will be coming before this House in the next few months. Can the Minister of State give an absolute guarantee that this legislation will be passed to allow for the elections in June?

Yes, and I have no doubt we will receive the co-operation of all sides of the House to get the legislation through to enable us to have the elections in June.

I am confused as to the Minister's reply. In relation to the extension of borough boundaries, is it the intention to have the June elections fought on the new borough boundaries?

No. In my answer to the previous question I mentioned the boundaries of the areas in question, namely, Cork, Limerick and Galway. The commission were asked to look at them and if they come up with proposals legislation will be introduced to implement the changes for the June elections.

What is the situation in the event of no proposals?

If they come forward with proposals for extensions legislation will be brought before the House to enable such extensions to take place. With regard to other urban areas, the vast and complex job of dealing with this matter will take years. We will bring in legislation to set up a statutory boundary commission and this will give them an opportunity to look at all boundaries in all local government areas.

Given that one third of our population is living in urban areas, principally Dublin, I fail to see how on earth it can be regarded as reform of local government——

We cannot have a debate at Question Time.

Will the Minister of State not concede that unless there is reform of local government in Dublin the entire operation will be only window dressing?

I do not know what the Deputy has in mind for local government reform. I know what I have in mind. It will require major changes and they will be carried out——

When?

In Dublin we are slightly increasing the numbers in the city and we are providing for three new county council areas in the county. I think that is about right. The Opposition broadly welcomed our proposals when they were published. I will be happy to get as much co-operation as possible for them because this is not a political matter. This reform is long overdue and I welcome co-operation from all sides of the House in any changes.

It is not being done.

The Deputy obviously did not read on the day of the Press statement the type of reform envisaged.

I know the details. Nothing has been done.

The Deputy sees the question purely as one of line drawing.

What?

That is not what local government is about. The Deputy is aware that within the context of Dublin city are six other authority areas, district council areas, which will bring it down further. As well as that there is a metropolitan authority with statutory powers to co-ordinate all the services. That in itself is a major improvement, but it is only the start. Beyond that we want to devolve down to local authorities real power, a real sense of responsibility and to divest central Government of a number of the things that should be done locally, and that will be done.

I understand from the Minister of State's reply that it will not be possible to draw up the new boundaries for urban councils and town commissions. The Minister no doubt is aware that if one out of every three people in Ireland lives in Dublin, two out of every three do not live in Dublin and many of those will be living in built-up areas where the population merits a vote in UDC and town commission elections. They will be denied the franchise, despite requests which have been before the Department of the Enviornment for many years to have new boundaries drawn up. I compliment the Minister for trying to deal with this matter, even belatedly, but the whole thing should be tidied up so that people who have a right to vote will not be denied a vote in these elections in areas where they live and pay rates and other charges.