asked the Minister for Communications if he will give details of (a) the size of interest bearing and (b) non-interest bearing capital liabilities on CIE for each of the last three years; and if he will indicate whether, in his view, CIE will be in a position to service such liabilities from its own activities.

CIE's interest bearing capital liabilities were £133.655 million in 1982; £182,070 million in 1983 and £208.634 million in 1984. The only non-interest bearing capital liabilities related to Ostlanna Iompair Éireann and these were £1.4 million in 1982; £7.4 million in 1983 and £11.253 million in 1984. CIE are required to service their borrowing liabilities from their resources including the State subvention.

I join with the Minister in wishing CIE every success in improving their situation. According to the Minister's answer, the amount increased from £133 million in 1982 to £208 million in 1984. Can he tell us the reason for this?

The reason is that the capital allocation for CIE is almost always entirely non-Exchequer capital— in other words, they have to borrow for long-term borrowing purposes. In the past year or two their capital programme has been of the order of £50 million or £60 million. This has to do with the replacement of the bus fleet and the replacement of rolling stock on the railways.

Is the Minister saying that there has been between £50 million and £60 million additional capital investment by CIE in the past two or three years——

Per year.

Is this mainly in respect of the replacement of buses?

Yes, and last year on rolling stock also.

Is the Minister satisfied that is good value for money?

It was very necessary to commence the programme of replacing rolling stock and my predecessors deserve credit for that. It means considerable expenditure and this adds to the CIE deficit which has to be met by the taxpayer. However, not to have undertaken the replacement of the bus fleet and the rail rolling stock would have meant less efficient services and more costly maintenance. It was a wise decision even though it is very costly.

Would the Minister like to repeat the OIE element in the figures he has given? How does he see the future in that regard?

I said that the only non-interest bearing capital liabilities related to Ostlanna Iompair Éireann and they were £1.4 million in 1982, £7.4 million in 1983 and £11.253 million in 1984. As the Deputy will know, responsibility for OIE has been transferred to the Minister for Labour and I have to suggest that the Deputy tables a question to that Minister.

That is a neat shuffle. When the Minister said non-interest bearing, does he mean that was an Exchequer loan given without interest?

That is right.