asked the Minister for Health if he will give details of the directives that both he and his Department have given to each Health Board in the country to reduce their expenditure in 1985; the reasons for this, the effect that it will have; the total amount of money available to each health board in the country for 1985; and if he will make a statement on the level of services that he hopes to provide within each health board during the forthcoming year.

The health boards have been advised that budgetary strategy for the years 1985 to 1987 should be determined in the light of the decisions contained in and the thrust of the health sections of the national plan. The plan envisages that the major change for the future will be a greater emphasis on disease prevention and community services. It is recognised, however, that a major constraint in effecting a significant shift of resources towards these areas will be the overall level of funds available. The Government decisions to reduce expenditure in the health area relate largely to reductions in payroll costs. Health boards have therefore been requested to concentrate the necessary reductions in budgerary allocations on this area of expenditure and on institutional services.

However, the question of the specific measures necessary to contain expenditure within the approved levels is a matter for each health board.

The Minister told us that the main thrust of the Government's recommendation to the health boards was a reduction in the payroll costs. Does the Minister accept that a number of vacancies will be left unfilled as a result of that during the coming year? At the meeting he had with the CEOs and chairmen of the health boards in Newbridge in November, a number of areas where there could be staff reductions were suggested to the health boards, for example, a reduction in overtime and locum cover. Does the Minister accept that this will have the effect of reducing the level of services which will be available?

When I came to office I found that, going back to 1980-82 —in 1979 the situation was out of hand altogether — massive sums of money were spent on overtime and on the employment of temporary and locum staff, payments for weekend working and other premium payments. It is in those areas that reductions have occurred. One was talking about an expenditure of millions of pounds at that time. The number of vacancies which have been left unfilled are very few despite the embargo. By and large, the health boards, with the possible exception of two where we have residual difficulties — the Southern and Western Health Boards — they are all in line with their expenditure targets for 1985.

Does the Minister accept that the health boards were told to leave two-thirds of the vacancies unfilled unless they could find the money to fund the filling of those vacancies? In view of the fact that they received a reduced allocation, the health boards are not able to do that. When the Minister talks about overtime in the health boards, does he not accept that the average working week is 40 hours and that the health services operate on a 24 hour a day basis, that is 168 hours a week? In the health services, 128 hours of the working week is overtime and for the Minister to suggest that they should be able to do away with overtime is a red herring.

I accept that, by and large, the health services operate on a 24 hour basis. I have encouraged health boards not to admit patients on a Friday afternoon, keep them through Friday night and all day Saturday. Apart from assisting them in their religious services on a Sunday, nothing happens to them apart from perhaps looking at the Match of the Day on television. Some tests are then done on Monday and Tuesday. That kind of practice was rampant but it has been stopped as far as possible. We now have five day week beds and there is nothing wrong with that. Procedures will be done between Monday and Friday except in cases of emergency. In some places there were two or three hospitals providing emergency services over the weekend but that, too has been rationalised. In fairness to the health boards, the bulk of the measures required have been taken and the budgets are now on target. Through the seventies, the health boards did not believe what successive Ministers said and in September or October they demanded and received more money. Since I came to office there have been no supplementary estimates. Between 1976 and 1982 Ministers for Health came into this House and looked for money from the Oireachtas. We are talking about £40 or £50 million. However, all that has now stopped. People are settling down. I want to thank the 60,000 people who are providing the health services. Some of them are not very happy, but they are doing it. They are doing a good job.

Some hospitals are practically halving the time patients stay in hospital. The Minister is trying to establish the practice of patients not staying in hospitals over the week end. We have to agree to that. Would the Minister agree that the hospitalisation of patients in the general hospitals needs to be re-examined in view of all the changes the Minister has proposed regarding bed requirements and so on?

One of the problems my Department have at national level is that we are a small Department with a small staff. Only 350 people work in the Department of Health. We had great difficulty in finding out what was going on. We have begun to find out. The data are now coming in. We have got the information from the health agencies. It is very difficult to know what is going on in some of the voluntary hospitals. I am not sure some of them know themselves. That is the way things are, and much money is spent. Now that we know, I can assure the Deputy that the services are being provided on a more rational basis. Expenditure is at a reasonable level. No one is suffering due to lack of hospital services.

In a previous reply the Minister referred to the Western and Southern Health Boards and the directives given to them. Would the Minister care to make a statement on recent events in the Southern Health Board as a result of his directive?

That is a separate question.

No, it is not.

One only has to read the papers to know there are two days work in that sort of question.

It is relevant to this question.

Ceist 7.

7.