asked the Minister for Health the steps he will take to ensure the continued operation of Calvary Hospital, Galway, after disposal by the present owners.

7.

asked the Minister for Health if he will introduce legislation to enable the VHI to participate in management and ownership of Calvary Hospital, Galway.

8.

asked the Minister for Health whether officials from his Department have had any discussions with officials of the Voluntary Health Insurance regarding the future operation of Calvary Hospital, Galway; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

I propose to take Questions Nos. 6 to 8, inclusive, together.

Calvary Hospital is a private hospital and I do not have any function as to its future use. I do not propose to introduce legislation to enable the Voluntary Health Insurance Board to participate in the management or ownership of that hospital.

However, the general question of Voluntary Health Insurance cover for patients in private hospitals is continuously under review in discussions between officials of my Department and the Voluntary Health Insurance Board.

Is the Minister not concerned that BUPA, a major health insurance company from the UK, have already come in here and invested in a private hospital? Does the Minister not think it would be in the interests of this country, and particularly of the Voluntary Health Insurance Board, that our own national company should be allowed to invest in hospitals? Further, will he not agree that Calvary Hospital in Galway would be ideal in this case? It is a small unit and is on the market at the moment and it would be an ideal unit in which the VHI could become involved. Will he not reconsider his decision and amend the legislation so that they might be in a position to invest?

Quite frankly I am at a loss to understand how the Deputy would regard it as a viable unit. The Sisters themselves decided they would get out of running the hospital. They did not regard it as viable, apart from the fact that they did not have enough vocations to continue the ordinary management of the hospital. It is a 71-bed acute hospital and it has been administered by the Sisters of the Little Company of Mary since 1954. I have not seen any rush on the part of any organisation to take over the running of that hospital. In that area there is the Merlin Park Hospital, the Galway Regional Hospital and Portiuncula Hospital is down the road. That hospital is being expanded and is an excellent hospital. There is no demand from the health board that Calvary Hospital be taken over and there are no proposals to my Department. In fact, the VHI have not asked that they should take over the hospital. It is the job of the VHI to get the best possible bargain and contract for their members from all the systems, whether voluntary hospitals, health board hospitals or private hospitals. I question strongly whether the VHI should put the reserves of its members into hospitals or build more hospitals of which we have more than enough and in the process cost its members extra charges. The big problem of the VHI is to keep premium costs down rather than getting embroiled in running other hospitals.

In case the Minister misunderstands, this question does not relate to the VHI investing in new hospitals. This is a question of the VHI taking a part in a hospital that exists. Is the Minister telling us here that officials of his Department and of the Voluntary Health Insurance have not had any discussions in relation to the Voluntary Health Insurance becoming involved in capital expenditure in hospitals that exist already?

There have been very many discussions.

But the Minister said they did not approach the Department about Calvary Hospital?

To my knowledge, not specifically about Calvary Hospital. They did not approach me about it. They may have spoken to officers of my Department. I have not received a personal approach from either the general manager or the chairman of the VHI. I would make the point to the Deputy that the very large number of hospitals we have encounter great difficulties in running their establishments and meeting their budgets. I do not think we should have the VHI become involved in new or existing hospitals which close down and in opening them up again. I cannot understand the logic of it.

If the British United Provident Association want to become involved in Blackrock, which is the one in which they have become involved, that is their privilege. But the Irish taxpayer and VHI members are not going to be milked in that operation. The State and the VHI are not in the business of amortising the capital cost of a hospital over four or five years by charging them £300 a day to get a bed in it. We have scarce resources. I am at a total loss to understand why the £16 million to £18 million of VHI reserves should be used for investment of that nature. Such reserves should be used to keep premiums down so that people remain in the VHI.

But the subscriptions to VHI will be going to BUPA which will get the profit.

They will not, because, frankly, if I succeed——

This is the sort of thing which defeats Question Time.

——in convincing the VHI, as I think I now am, the VHI will provide a separate cover.

I wanted to ask a supplementary.

If it seeks to open up a whole discussion on the wisdom of the VHI doing certain things, it is not in order.

Irrespective of who owns or controls any hospital, surely they must conform to the legislative demands of the Minister's Department? Therefore I cannot accept that the Minister has no function to play in the future use of Calvary Hospital. If we are to lose 70 beds it will put pressure on existing hospitals. Because of the fact that the VHI already have headquarters in the west, administratively it may be good policy on the part of the Minister to promote a situation in which they would control that hospital, keeping it in business, recognising the fact that Galway city and its environs are expanding rapidly.

If the Deputy put that down next week he would not recognise it as a question.

Can the Minister give us any assurance that he will investigate the situation vis-á-vis the future expansion of health services in the west?

I have ruled that out of order.

I think that is very unfair. That is the second time you have ruled me out of order here, Sir.

It may appear very unfair but it is just unfortunate that the Deputy leaves himself open to it.