asked the Minister for Agriculture the total amount and value of (a) butter and (b) meat held in this country under EC intervention on the latest date for which figures are available.

On 30 April 1985 total intervention stocks of 82,000 tonnes of beef valued at £210 million and 62,000 tonnes of butter valued at £152 million were held in Irish cold stores.

Does this mean that the amount of beef in storage has increased by between 30 per cent and 40 per cent over the 1984 figure?

The Deputy asked a question on this subject on 11 December 1984 and the reply was that on 30 November 1984 total intervention stocks of beef were 87,000 tonnes so the amount of beef in storage has decreased since that date.

The Minister gave a figure for 30 April 1985 of 82,000 tonnes. I presume beef stocks would be at their lowest in April because the killings would be later in the year. Would they be at their highest in the autumn?

That would be a fair assumption.

Would I be correct in saying that at this time last year stocks of beef were in the 60,000 tonne bracket — in other words, that they have increased by about 30 per cent?

I have not got the figures relating to this time last year. I have only got the figures relating to the last time the Deputy asked a question, which was in respect of 30 November 1984. The general thrust of the Deputy's question is correct. One would expect that intervention stocks at this time of the year would be lower. In fact, they are at a comparatively high level at present.

Is the Minister satisfied that there is adequate cold storage space for the butter produce this year?

We have no immediate problem in that regard. We had two ship loads of butter in cold storage intervention in Cork Harbour up to a few months ago. The position has been alleviated. We have not got a problem with storage at the moment.

Has the Minister any plans for increasing sales to reduce the amount of beef in intervention?

We are continually doing our best and An Bord Bainne are having a considerable degree of success in getting rid of butter stocks and also skim milk powder stocks.

20.

asked the Minister for Agriculture the total cumulative cost to the Exchequer of the hire or purchase of space for the storage of agricultural products in intervention since 1973.

In the period 1973 to 1984 total expenditure by the Exchequer on the storage of intervention products was £118.8 million, of which £96.4 million was offset by receipts from FEOGA.

Does this include all stocks of beef and butter in storage?

Yes.

The Minister is saying it has cost the taxpayer approximately £22 million to pay for stocks in storage.

For the period 1973 to 1984 that figure would be correct.

And the £96 million comes from the EC some of which would be Irish contributions to the EC.

A very minor part.

Quite so. It could be in the region of another £1 million or £2 million. Is the Minister satisfied that the Irish taxpayer should be paying £22 million to keep enormous amounts of food in storage at a time when the Irish public, and the public generally throughout the world, are so concerned about the starvation in African countries?

One could never be happy when a large amount of butter, skim milk powder and beef is in cold storage or intervention. If we did not have the intervention facility, many Irish farmers would be a damn sight poorer and taxpayers would find themselves in a much worse position. It is very advantageous for us to have that intervention facility available.

By all means let us produce as much as possible. There is nothing wrong with that. I am asking the Minister how this enormous quantity of food can be transferred to the people who need it. Were there any developments over the past three months because of the enormous shortage of food in Africa?

Thankfully we live in a free economy. We sell those stocks. We do not give them away. If we did not sell them there would not be money to finance the Common Agricultural Policy.

We are not selling them.

We are selling them.

They are in storage.

As I pointed out, Bord Bainne are selling a very substantial amount of the intervention stocks.

I asked a simple question to which I have not got an answer. Over the past five or six months there has been tremendous concern about hunger in Africa and particularly in Ethiopia. This matter concerned the EC. I am sure the Minister was involved in these discussions. In the light of the discussions and since there is an enormous amount of food being stored, has any new plan emerged for distributing this food to the people who need it?

I am not avoiding that question. The Government and I are as much concerned as is Deputy Mac Giolla about the problem of starvation in Africa.

What are they doing about it?

The EC have given more aid to Africa than have any of the other economic blocs in the world and within the EC, Ireland has given more aid than any other member. In other words, we have given more in terms of the whole world economy than has any other country in the world. The point is that, if the product is given away, it would not be possible to finance the Common Agricultural Policy. Therefore, we give as much as we can possibly give without undermining either our own economy or the CAP.

Would the Minister agree that this is an interesting subject and that people who raise it usually propose that someone else ought to buy the food and send it away? If we wish to bring about a solution to the problem we are free to raise the money necessary by way of taxation in our own country.

That is not a question.

I am asking the Minister——

The Deputy is giving information.

Would the Minister agree that if we so wish we can buy the food from storage cheaply and give it to the people of Africa but that first our people would have to be willing to allow the finance to be raised here by way of taxation.

It would be a cheap way of dealing with the problem.

I agree with Deputy McCartin that what he has outlined would be the alternative.