asked the Minister for the Public Service if there are special arrangements for the full time paid release of civil servants to complete university courses in public administration; if so, whether the staffing situation in Government Departments has led to any problems in staff being released for this purpose; and if so, whether he will make a statement on the matter in view of the contents of Chapter 4 in the Government White Paper, Serving the Country Better.

Special arrangements are in existence for the full time paid release of civil servants to complete the final year of the Bachelor of Public Administration course at University College, Dublin.

In general, Departments have been able to release staff for attendance. However, on occasion, Departments have not been able to release individual officials due either to the staffing situation or the key role occupied by a particular person. I am committed to support arrangements for release for this course but it must be faced that from time to time a small number of officials will not be able to secure release. The demands of the work must come first, but in general it is possible to meet these while giving release to most of those applying.

I appreciate that in their White Paper the Department of the Public Service are trying to encourage people to avail of these courses. The details are set out at Chapter 4. The course leading to a B.Sc. in public administration is the one that is most relevant to civil servants. I understand that last year 15 people sought release from the public service to complete that course but that five of those experienced difficulty in that regard. My information is, too, that last year three people in the Department of Health were refused release to take the course on the grounds of the staff situation. I understand that the Minister for Health refused a request from the Taoiseach for the release of the people concerned. Two people from the Department of Justice are being allowed sufficient time only to attend the lectures and they are required to make up for this time when they return to their offices. The crucial point is that without being released the people in question cannot complete the course after studying part time for three of four years on the understanding that they would be released for this purpose. Therefore, would the Minister endeavour to have the matter remedied?

I am making the request in the light of his earlier reply to me when he said that he was taking the opportunity to put on record his appreciation of the co-operation received from the Departments in the promotion and implementation of the schemes in the Civil Service and the plans to extend that scheme to the public sector. The Minister went on to say that the success of the scheme is dependent largely on the goodwill and commitment of those responsible and he expressed his gratitude to the staff involved. It seems to me that there are a number of people, not in the Department of the Public Service but in other Departments, who are either envious or are simply being uncooperative in regard to these schemes. On the last occasion on which I highlighted this matter in the House I received a letter from the Secretary of one of the Departments, but I do not consider it my function to begin writing to Secretaries of Departments ticking them off, so perhaps the Minister might do so. In a number of cases the Departments are being particularly unhelpful in trying to improve the public service.

I congratulate the Deputy on receiving a record for one question. In order to clarify the position, the Deputy might state the area from which he received the correspondence.

I have no objection to giving the correspondence to the Minister. I can tell the Minister the number of individuals concerned.

Has the Deputy the correspondence from the Secretary of the Department?

I have not. Is the Minister questioning my statement — does he say that I am incorrect?

There is substance in what the Deputy is suggesting. The figures are juxtaposed. I have to confess but I felt a degree of frustration in the matter: that is why I was interested to know about it. When the Deputy raised it the last time he said it had been raised with him by the Secretary of one of the Departments.

It was with the Secretary of the Department of Finance who wrote a long letter which I interpreted as almost questioning my right to question him. I will probably get a letter now from the Secretaries of the Departments of Health and Justice.

I doubt if the Deputy will get it from all those quarters.

Has the Minister any power with the Secretaries?

I refuse to be provoked today.