asked the Minister for Agriculture when it is proposed to introduce a proper farm retirement scheme to encourage the speedier transfer of land from old to young; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

Outline proposals for a new socio-structures measure which would include a retirement scheme for elderly farmers were adopted by the Council of Ministers on 16 December 1986. The matter is now to be examined further at official level and the council are to take a final decision by 28 February next.

The scheme that was in operation in this country operated up to four years ago. Will the Minister not agree that the land of Ireland is in the hands of too many old people, that young farmers would be inclined to be more aggressive and therefore more beneficial to the economy? Why did the Minister scrap that scheme? Even though it may not have been very successful at least it was encouraging some transfer of land.

To be honest, it was not successful at all and the Deputy well knows that. The previous scheme was not successful either.

It was better than nothing.

As far as the transfer of land to young farmers is concerned, I would argue that no Government have done more than this one in the last four years by the exemption of stamp duty.

Who brought that in?

Are you taking credit for that now? It was Deputy Dukes who brought it in and well the Deputy knows that.

It was Deputy MacSharry.

No, it was not.

The Government were going to abolish it in two successive budgets if it were not for the pressure we put on them.

That kind of codology does not get you anywhere. The Deputy knows well who brought it in. It was one of the best schemes ever introduced——

If Question Time does not settle down I will seriously consider adjourning the House for an hour.

We must have facts from that side of the House.

It had the effect that over 6,000 people participated in various courses throughout the country. I have not the slightest doubt that many of them who are well educated will have access to the management or ownership of their parents' farms years before it would have occurred. This programme was carried out at a very low cost to the Exchequer. In principle, I like the concept of retirement pensions——

I hope the Minister is not going to go on pension himself.

The Deputy would get a nice pension. The new proposals are likely to apply to those between 55 and 70 years. However, a great deal of discussion has to take place in Brussels about this scheme which has to be tied to certain criteria. It will all have to do with taking land out of production, the change in the use of land, and so on. It is an interesting concept but whether Irish farmers want to retire, irrespective of the monetary compensation, is another story.

I put a simple question to the Minister but he did not answer it. I agree that the scheme that was in operation up to four years ago was not a tremendous success.

We cannot discuss schemes now.

I understand that 600 people became involved and to that extent the scheme was a limited success. The point I should like to make——

The Deputy should not make a point. If he has a question to ask he should put it to the Minister.

If the scheme was not a big success why did the Government wait four years to do something about it? Why did they not try to improve it?

The Deputy has asked a question and he should sit down and wait for the reply.

I answered that question.

All we have heard from the Minister was waffle.

We have a different system altogether. We got the transfer of land from father or mother to son or daughter quicker than before and the Deputy is aware of that.

(Limerick West): Is the Minister aware that in order to accelerate the transfer from the older generation to the younger generation it will be necessary for the Government to introduce changes in the land authority? Has the Minister any plans to update the land policy of the Government by establishing a new land authority?

That is a separate question.

It is a separate question but if the Deputy wishes I will debate the issue with him.

How many farmers are eligible for such a scheme? How many farmers over 60 years of age are in control of their farms?

I do not have that information but the figure would be between 25,000 and 30,000.