asked the Minister for Defence when it is intended to hold the next recruitment drive for the Army; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

26.

asked the Minister for Defence if he will outline the Government's policy on recruitment to the Defence Forces in the light of the reduced allocation for his Department in the 1988 Estimates; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

84.

asked the Minister for Defence the full extent of the Army recruitment, if any, proposed in 1988; the exact number of personnel involved, both male and female; the plans, if any, he has for the updating and improvement of Army facilities and conditions including housing; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

(Limerick West): I propose to take Questions Nos. 5, 26 and 84 together.

Arrangements are now in hand for an intake of 400 recruits to the Permanent Defence Force.

Recruitment is constantly kept under review in the light of current strengths and commitments. The question of further intakes of recruits in the future will be examined in the context of general financial constraints, the overall budgetary situation and the needs of the Defence Forces.

The provision of suitable accommodation and facilities for living, operational, administrative, recreational and storage purposes throughout the Defence Forces is an ongoing process. Improvements, including renovations, redecorations, refurbishments and replacements continue to be carried out within the resources made available for these requirements.

The pay and allowances of personnel of the Defence Forces are kept under constant review. The benefits of all general increases in pay and allowances granted to the Civil Service are applied also to the Defence Forces.

I acknowledge that the Department of Defence are to recruit 400 extra personnel and the Minister has been saying so for the last two or three months but, in the Book of Estimates, there is shown a decrease in the pay bill. Would the Minister explain to the House how he can recruit and pay an extra 400 soldiers at a time when there has been a 2½ per cent pay increase agreed in the public service? I cannot reconcile the two figures.

(Limerick West): Which area is the Deputy talking about?

If 400 people are recruited into the Army in 1988 — bearing in mind that we have just been discussing the Book of Estimates for 1988 — then I cannot understand the decrease shown in the pay bill for the Department——

Let us try to avoid repetition. I want to make some progress.

(Limerick West): I was asked the number being recruited in 1987 and my answer is in respect of that year.

Just to get this matter straight: we are now into the last two months of this year. Do I take it that the new recruits about whom the Minister speaks will be in situ in the Army before the last day of December 1987?

(Limerick West): They will commence their training early in December next.

How will this group be paid in 1988?

(Limerick West): Adequate provisions have been made for their payment in 1988.

Not in the Book of Estimates.

In June this year the Minister's colleague, Deputy V. Brady, responded to questions on his behalf and advised the House that there were 8,316 applicants awaiting entry into the Defence Forces. Our inquiry then was whether, in view of the pending cutbacks and recruitment policy emanating inevitably from Government policy at that time, which has been carried through, and the fact that the vast majority of——

I asked for a brief question.

——people have no prospect of ever getting into the Defence Forces, whether the Minister's Department were undertaking——

I am afraid the Deputy is imparting information and making a speech rather than seeking information. Will he please be precise?

My precise question is whether any action has been taken by the Minister's Department to realistically advise those persons on the waiting list of their prospects of recruitment into the Defence Forces.

(Limerick West): That question does not arise because all applicants for recruitment are being interviewed. Interviews are at present taking place and I can tell the House that 400 new recruits will commence training in early December.

But I wanted to know whether they were being given a realistic appraisal of their prospects, given that 400 comprise a very small proportion of the overall 8,000 on the waiting list.

(Limerick West): What I said was that there would be 400 recruited this year and that all applicants were being interviewed.

There is an interesting question, perhaps for another day, as to whether over 8,000 applicants for any post in the public service should be interviewed. Am I right in assuming that by the time these 400 people——

Deputy Keating, I am awaiting a question.

I am asking the Minister: am I right in assuming——

There is no need for a preamble.

Am I right in assuming that, by the time these 400 people have taken up their positions, up to 1,200 people will have left the Army, in other words, through what is termed natural wastage, not a very pleasant term? In fact will the net result not be that there will be fewer people in the Army? Furthermore, would the Minister say whether 400 is the correct number; should it not be more?

(Limerick West): Personnel leave the Army all the time, not just today nor yesterday, as the Deputy well knows. I am concerned that the numbers in the Army are adequate to meet present day requirements. That aspect is being continuously monitored.

Can the Minister confirm that, when these 400 people have been recruited into the Army, the overall number of people employed in the Army will be fewer than that obtaining at the beginning of this year?

(Limerick West): I would not agree with that contention. At present the average strength of the Army is approximately 11,600.

I am not looking at averages. When the 400 people are recruited into the Army on 1 December the number serving in the Army will be fewer than on 1 December 1986.

I think that is correct.

(Limerick West): The number in the Army now is adequate to meet——

Let me request the Minister to answer the question I asked which is, when these 400 people have been recruited will there than be fewer people serving in the Army in December 1987 than there were in December 1986?

(Limerick West): I have not got that information, but I can let the Deputy have it.

Is it not true that the Army lost 600 personnel last year?

(Limerick West): I have not got that information, but there are adequate personnel in the Army to meet the requirements of the Army on a day-to-day basis.

You are running down the Army.

(Limerick West): The personnel have been upwards and downwards over the years.