May I say that I require very much the co-operation of the Members, especially the two Members concerned, Deputies Gemma Hussey and Mairin Quill to enable me to dispose of the three remaining questions nominated for priority within the prescribed time. I propose to proceed to deal with other business, the Extradition (Amendment) Bill, 1987, at 3.45 p.m. Therefore I would wish for co-operation in respect of Questions Nos. 48 to 50, inclusive, if these questions are to be reached at all.

48.

asked the Minister for Education if, in view of her modification of the disimprovement in the primary pupil-teacher ratio announced on Thursday, 26 November, she will now modify the disimprovement of 11 per cent in the vocational schools pupil-teacher ratio which is more severe than the original primary cut-back.

In relation to the first part of the question I would refer the Deputy to my statement of 26 November concerning the guidelines for the implementation of Circular 20/87. The Statement is being circulated in the Official Report.

With regard to the second part of the question, in my Estimates speech on Education in the Dáil on 22 October last I spoke of the need to bring all second level schools on to the one pupil-teacher ratio.

I know that Deputy Hussey, when she was Minister, asked vocational education committees to move between the pupil-teacher ratio bands of 17 and 19 and to reach the band of 19 as quickly as they could within an allocated timescale.

Following is the statement:

Guidelines for the Implementation of Circular 20/87.

Primary Quota Review Committee

The Minister for Education, Deputy Mary O'Rourke, wishes to confirm that she is engaged in carrying out a major review of the primary school sector of education, including the establishment of a Primary Quota Review Committee.

The purpose of the committee will be to see how, within the limits of expenditure laid down in the 1988 Book of Estimates, the best possible arrangement can be made in the deployment of teachers, the size of classes and the organisation of our primary schools generally. In particular, the committee will concentrate on any difficulties which may arise in certain schools following the issue of Circular 20/87 where the implementation of the circular would create unacceptably large classes.

Two representatives of the School Managers' Association and two representatives from the Irish National Teachers' Organisation will be invited to act on the committee, together with two officials from the Department.

Guidelines

It will be the responsibility of the committee, to act under the following guidelines: (1) problems will be examined on a school by school and class by class basis; (2) the average class size will be in the low thirties. The maximum size of any class will not exceed forty. Where, because of exceptional circumstances, it is impossible to adhere to this limit, the permission of the review committee and the Minister would be required; (3) the effects on schools of population changes will be taken into account; (4) special consideration will be given to schools in disadvantaged areas; (5) special consideration will be given to the remedial needs of schools; (6) existing remedial posts will not be affected by the changes under Circular 20/87, nor will special posts in disadvantaged areas; and (7) class sizes must be appropriate to the actual size of the classroom. Sanction for the retention of teaching posts will rest with the Minister.

General

The principal teachers will be expected under the general direction of the board of management to reorganise class sizes. Individual classes should not in any circumstances be substantially larger than the average in the school.

In order to give the review committee an adequate opportunity to carry out a thorough examination, no changes under Circular 20/87 will take place before the end of the school year June 1988.

The voluntary redundancy-early retirement circular setting out the conditions under which teachers may opt for voluntary redundancy will issue within a few days.

Expenditure on Education

Total expenditure on education is estimated at £1,184 million in 1988. Of this, £420 million relates to primary education. Over 80 per cent of expenditure is on pay and pensions.

Any costs which may arise from the work of the Quota Review Committee will be compensated for within the limits laid down in the Book of Estimates.

I am sure the Minister is aware and agrees with the fact that her Department have always considered vocational schools to be a very special case, because of the kind of work they do. I would like to ask the Minister, in view of her statement that it would be a good thing to have all second level schools at the same pupil-teacher ratio, what proportion of secondary schools offer senior engineering, building construction, mechanical drawing as part of their work with second level students? A very small number of these schools do so; therefore it is impossible for the vocational schools to operate under this new pupil-teacher ratio without dropping some of these subjects.

I do not have the answer to hand but I gave it in my speech on the Estimates in October and I am willing to furnish it to the Deputy. I am conscious that one has to be precise but I do remember at the time being quite amazed and quite pleased that the number of secondary schools offering building construction, civil engineering, home economics, technical drawing and woodwork — all of the practical subjects — had greatly increased. In many instances there were as many secondary schools offering these subjects as there were vocational schools. It is a great measure of the sense of maturity of both sectors of post primary education that the vocational schools are now offering the full range of practical and academic subjects. In a similar vein the secondary schools, in many instances, are offering a full range of the practical as well as the academic subjects. The precise information for which the Deputy has asked I have, but not with me, and I will furnish it to her.