asked the Minister for Tourism and Transport if the Government have received an application for an increase in fares from CIE; his views on whether fares must be kept at an economic level to encourage the greater use of public transport; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

31.

asked the Minister for Tourism and Transport if an application for fares increases has been received from the CIE group of companies; if so, if he will give details of the increases sought; and if he will clarify the Government's response to the application.

I propose, to take Questions Nos. 7 and 31 together.

The examination of the applications from Iarnród Éireann, Bus Átha Cliath and Bus Éireann for a fares and rates increase was completed recently. This took account of the conclusions of the Dublin Transport Authority which were furnished in accordance with section 28 (2) of the Dublin Transport Authority Act, 1986, on the application of Bus Átha Cliath and that of Iarnród Éireann for Dublin suburban rail services.

Details of the increases sought are set out in a statement which I propose to circulate in the Official Report. The average increase in fares sought was about 6 per cent.

It is policy to promote the wider and increased use of public transport. Accordingly, every effort is made to keep fares at the lowest possible levels, taking account of the costs of providing services and the financial resources of Córas Iompair Éireann.

In line with this approach the Government have approved increases as follows: (i) increases for multiple journey tickets of about 6 per cent in relation to Dublin suburban rail services; (ii) increases of 5p in respect of stage fares in the range 25p to 120p and increases of 10p in respect of stage fares in the range 170p to 240p for the Dublin suburban rail services; and (iii) increases in the fares of Bus Átha Cliath and Bus Éireann on the basis of a maximum increase of 2.5 per cent.

The Government also decided that the increases could be implemented as soon as practicable. The increases will not apply to the free travel schemes operated by CIE on behalf of the Departments of Social Welfare and Defence.

Fares Increases sought by Iarnród Éireann, Bus Átha Cliath and Bus Éireann.

1. Iarnród Éireann

Iarnród Éireann sought approval for an increase of 6 per cent (approximately) in Dublin suburban rail stage fares and multi journey fares.

2. Bus Átha Cliath

Bus Átha Cliath sought approval to increase

(i) the single adult fares as follows:

(a) 60p and 70p fares by 5p;

(b) 85p fares by 10p; and

(c) 120p fares by 20p.

(ii) multi-journey tickets by between 5 and 6.25 per cent;

(iii) children's and school children's fares of 25p by 5p;

(iv) the city shopper's fare by 5p to 30p; and

(v) an increase of 5.8 per cent in the fares to be charged to Government Departments in respect of old age pensioners etc. and War of Independence veterans.

3. Bus Éireann

Bus Éireann sought approval.

(i) in the case of Cork, Waterford, Limerick and Galway cities for

(a) increasing the adult fare from 52p to 55p and the child fare from 26p to 30p;

(b) an increase of 7.7 per cent for weekly and between 4.3 per cent and 4.6 per cent for monthly adult commuter tickets, and

(c) an increase of 9.1 per cent for weekly and between 4.4 per cent and 5.7 per cent for monthly student commuter tickets;

(ii) for rationalisation of the fares structure for rural/Expressway services to give

(a) an average increase of 4 per cent for journeys up to 50 miles;

(b) no overall increase for journeys over 50 miles but modifications and simplification of the structure giving minor increases or reductions; and

(iii) for increases of 3.8 per cent, 5.9 per cent and 5.3 per cent in respect of medium, long and giant weekly commuter "Hop" tickets respectively and increases of 4.6 per cent and 3.3 per cent in respect of medium and long monthly commuter "Hop" tickets respectively in the Dublin region (radius of 20 to 50 miles).

First, when was the decision made by the Government to implement these increases and, secondly, when does the Minister feel that these increases will come into effect? He has said they will come into effect as soon as practicable. When might that be?

I have not the exact date and I am not guessing because this is no place for guesswork but I expect the earliest practicable date for their coming into effect will be early January.

When was the decision made to implement the increases?

Quite recently. I cannot give the exact date but I will supply it to the Deputy when it becomes available.

Will the Minister agree, particularly in respect of the Dublin region, that the bus fares in particular are of such a scale as to be prohibitive and exorbitant and that that is one of the main contributing factors for the decrease in the use of Dublin Bus services in the last number of years? Will he agree that for that reason it is important to discriminate in favour of Dublin Bus users against any major increase in fares in that area in the coming months, if not years.

I do not want to get into the area of discrimination but the Deputy will have observed from my answer that the increases are at the rate of 2.5 per cent, the same as the rate of inflation.

Arising from the Minister's reply and in view of the fact that redundancies were announced this morning in Dublin Bus does the Minister intend giving these increases and are the Government considering allowing competition on the Dublin bus system?

The Deputy is extending the scope of his question quite considerably.

I had already answered that question before the Deputy came into the House.

Will the Minister consider reducing fares in the public transport system in the country generally and particularly in Dublin city in order to encourage greater use of the public transport system? Surely this is a very negative attitude when the indications are that the numbers using public transport are diminishing rapidly.

I can see some sense in the Deputy's suggestion but I am convinced that the cost of the fares is not the only reason for the decline in numbers using public transport. I know the Deputy realises that £113 million plus is provided in the Estimates for 1988 for CIE. It is in the light of that that we have granted the increases which are as low as we could possibly make them, at 2.5 per cent for Bus Atha Cliath, just equal to the expected rate of inflation.

A final supplementary please.

The companies using air transport have thrived as a result of deregulation and a reduction in fares. Based on that parallel surely there is a case for doing likewise with road and rail transport?

It is not an exact parallel. This is the first increase in two years and at 2.5 per cent it is, in effect, a reduction in the fares when we take inflation into account.

I have allowed a lot of latitude on this question.

There is a Priority Question on it.

I appreciate that and I will allow a final supplementary from Deputy Gay Mitchell and from Deputy Pat McCartan.

The Minister said that he had dealt with the question of competition on the Dublin bus route, but I did not catch the reply.

I did not say I dealt with it. I answered that question before the Deputy came in, in reply to another question.

It does not relate to the Dublin bus system. I have just looked down through the questions. The Minister may have answered it in relation to Aer Lingus but not in relation to Dublin Bus. Is the Minister considering competition on the Dublin bus route?

This question deals with fares.

I answered it. I said that——

I can only presume that the Minister is examining competition if he will not deny it.

In relation to the increase in the suburban rail fare will the Minister say if those increases will also apply to the DART system and, if so, would the Minister not consider that an increase of 5p in the fare rates from 25p up to £1.20 and of 10p in the fare rates from £1.70 to £2.40 represents a very substantial percentage increase and that the risk inherent in increasing the fares here is that, in time, it will work against encouraging people to use the DART service?

I do not accept that at all.

First, does it apply to DART?

It does. We can expect increasing numbers on the DART system because of its efficiency and effectiveness.

Denationalisation is on the way.