asked the Minister for Agriculture and Food the grants and subsidies which are available to farmers with suckling cow herds (a) within the disadvantaged areas and (b) outside the disadvantaged areas.

The following cattle premium and headage grants are at present available to farmers with suckler herds in the disadvantaged areas:

(1) Under EC premium schemes, £36.80 per cow is paid in all suckler herds; in addition £7.60 per calf is paid on all calves at six months of age and £15.20 per male bovine at least nine months of age, subject to a maximum of 50 male animals.

(2) In the more severely handicapped areas, headage grants on beef cows are £70 on each of the first eight livestock units and £66 on each of the next 22 and on other cattle £32 and £28 each, respectively, subject to a limit of 30 livestock units and a maximum payment of £2,012.

(3) In the less severely handicapped areas, headage grants are confined to beef cows and the rates are £70 on each of the first eight and £66 on each of the next 20, subject to a limit of 28 cows and a maximum payment of £1,880.

Outside the disadvantaged areas, the EC premium schemes are available to farmers with suckler herds.

Has the Minister any plans to increase or extend the amount of grants available to herd owners with suckler cows and if so, by how much and when does he intend to introduce the scheme?

Having regard to the increase this year over last year, I do not want to hold out to this House or to the people concerned a promise of further increases next year. I have been pursuing diligently with the Commission the question of the extension of the EC disadvantaged area schemes and also that of reclassification. I do not wish at this stage to convey the impression that I want to commit myself to increasing the rate of grant, even if the Commission were disposed to doing so and I have no evidence that they are.

The Minister has referred to an extension of EC grants. Could he inform the House what progress, if any, he has made with regard to the redesignation of the disadvantaged areas as severely handicapped? Is he pursuing the matter?

That perhaps arises in more detail with regard to other questions. I acknowledge, however, that it arises also from my own comment. I have made significant progress, but the Deputy will appreciate that this is also linked with the question of the rate of recoupment from the European Community, to which I have applied for extra recoupment from 50 per cent to 70 per cent. Until such time as I can clear that ground with the Commission, I would not like to speculate on the rate of progress at the moment, but it is continuing.

On that issue——

One final supplementary question.

A number of Deputies are offering. I call for a final supplementary question from the Deputy who is in possession.

The Minister has gone on record on a number of occasions as stating that he was introducing a new scheme to increase the number of cows, either by way of direct grant payment or low interest loans.

That has nothing to do with the disadvantaged areas.

The Deputy is straying from the question.

That is a different matter entirely.

Would the Minister accept that the present incentives seem to be ineffective, having particular regard to the fact that 20,000 calves were exported from this country in the 12 months ending 31 October last? Would he also accept that further incentives may be needed to encourage the rearing of calves in the country?

Let me just put on the record, in view of the questions now being asked, the increase in the value of the scheme this year over last year. The 1987 suckler cow premium is £9.76 greater than the 1986 one of £27.04. It is now £37, or to be precise £36.80. That is considerably more than last year. The 1987 calf premium has increased by about 25p over last year. The value of that scheme is £12 million and the value of the first scheme mentioned is £16 million. The 1987 EC special beef premium has been £15.20 since 11 July of this year. Before that it was £14.72 and the value of that scheme is £21 million. There is another reality and that is that what we are seeing here are increased grants and premia on all fronts. The House should recognise that fact.

Let me ask a two part supplementary question. The first part relates to the Minister's comments on the reclassification proposals. In relation to the modification of the reclassification proposal which was lodged by the Minister on 4 November, will he confirm or deny that the proposal as at present framed excludes dairy cows in the areas proposed to be reclassified? Secondly, in relation to the suckler cow herds, will the Minister accept that we are facing a national emergency in regard to the drop in cow numbers, projected at 180,000 over the next few years? Despite the defensive position which the Minister has adopted, will he accept that there is now a need for a major comprehensive programme in an effort to arrest that trend at this late stage which could involve not only the suckler cow herd but a whole variety of areas?

I do not know how relevant that is to the question but if there is an emergency, which I do not accept there is, it has existed for the past five years. It is a little inconsistent for Deputies opposite to make complaints when action is being proposed when they had nothing at all to say when nothing was being done.

Will the Minister reply to the first part of my question in regard to disadvantaged areas?

That is a separate matter.

There are half a dozen Deputies offering. I want to disabuse Deputies of the notion that we may debate this matter now. I am now calling Deputy Avril Doyle, to be followed by Deputy Davern.

We will come back to this matter. The Minister will not escape.

This question has got to reach a conclusion.

As we all know, the Treaty of Rome espoused the aspiration that we should concentrate production in areas of greatest natural advantage. Given that fact, together with our excessive milk production and our under production of beef at present, would the Minister agree that the grants structure generally for the production of beef is imbalanced in that the grasslands are on the east coast——

A brief question, please.

——whereas the greatest concentration of grant supplement is in the disadvantaged areas where it is far more difficult to produce the beef we are trying to produce? Is there anything we can do to redress this imbalance and would the Minister agree that we should try to redress this imbalance?

The matter which the Deputy has addressed may be relevant having regard to the purposes of the Common Agricultural Policy which are both social and economic. I hope we are getting the balance right. It is clearly evident that if we were only to go for economic return we would not concentrate as much support in the disadvantaged areas but that is not the only purpose of Government in this area. We have to maintain a level of family farm income right throughout the country and that is why these schemes are so extensive.

Stores are more natural to that part of the world whereas beef is more natural to the grassland. It is a case of horses for courses.

Do not forget the western areas.

A Cheann Comhairle, perhaps the——

They produce the best stores in the country, not the best beef.

Can we hear the Deputy in possession, please?

Will the Minister agree that this problem has not arisen suddenly, even though Deputy O'Keeffe has only suddenly become aware of it, but rather over many years? Regardless of what incentives he may give will the Minister ask the IFA and the ICMSA in his negotiations with them what incentives they intend to offer their own members to stop the export of 20,000 calves and to create the jobs which are so badly needed in this country?

What the Deputy has said with his usual degree of conviction is something which I would reflect, although not by way of criticism of the organisations. Action is required by way of decisions and discipline from all concerned and it is clear that those involved, and the organisations recognise this, should encourage farmers to become more conscious of the consequences of cow slaughtering. The good news is, and I am glad to be able to say it in this House, that cow slaughterings over recent months are much less than had been feared. Perhaps the farming organisations and the farmers themselves are acting in a very disciplined fashion.

I am anxious to facilitate Deputies but, at the same time, I do not want Deputies to pursue a question on which the Chair has allowed adequate representation. I am now going to call Deputy Farrelly, to be followed by Deputy Boylan and Deputy McCoy. I ask them to be very brief.

The Minister indicated that he resubmitted an application to Europe to increase the size of the disadvantaged areas. Can the Minister tell us whether he has submitted that application? The Minister has asked for an increase in the level of grants which will be made available. Instead of recouping 50 per cent of the amount of money which we spend, the Minister is looking to recoup 70 per cent. Does the Minister not think this will interfere with the application and that it will result in it being left on the bench for quite some time because the Commission will not adhere to that proposal? Secondly, the Minister indicated that there has been an increase in the level of grants payable this year over last year. Even though we give credit where credit is due, I hope the Minister will not come into this House and take credit for the excellent work which was done by the previous Minister in this area.

I hope that nothing I have said today or on any other occasion made any comment on my predecessor whose efforts I have always recognised. At the same time, I have to rely on the facts. In regard to the rate of application, I have looked for an increased recoupment of 70 per cent which I think is a matter of great importance.

Has the Minister excluded dairy cows?

Because of my success in obtaining an increase in the level of recoupment in the western package to 70 per cent I am confident that will now be followed in turn by an increase to 70 per cent in the disadvantaged areas. That said, I cannot anticipate the result but I am satisfied that having succeeded in the first leg with the Commission I will also succeed in the second leg.

Will it delay the process?

The Deputy should support us in our efforts to get extra money.

You have put it on the back burner.

Are dairy cows excluded in the new application?

I am not prepared to make any comment until the scheme has been completed.

You must be sure one way or another——

A question, Deputy.

Will the Minister give an indication that he is prepared to extend the payment of the suckler cow grant to include dairy herds, given that there has been a sharp decline in cattle numbers in this country, particularly to farmers who have filled their quota?

I have answered that question.

I am calling Deputy McCoy.

We may take it then that the Minister has no intention of doing this and that he is considering excluding the dairy herd in his application. That is an amazing turnabout.

I have called Deputy McCoy.

In view of the fact that it is far more profitable to have suckler cows in disadvantaged areas, will the Minister agree that we should concentrate suckler cow production in those areas? Will the Minister agree that in regard to milk reallocation it was a retrograde step to keep the ceiling as low as 10,000 gallons?

That is a separate question. There are different opinions on that. I suggest that the Deputy discuss the matter with Deputy Doyle.