asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he will consider amending the free travel regulations, so as to enable recipients of invalidity pension and disabled person's maintenance allowance, nominate a person, other than a spouse, to accompany them when travelling.

To widen the scope of the free travel scheme to include persons, other than their spouses, travelling with invalidity pensioners and disabled person's maintenance allowance recipients would have sizeable cost implications and could not be considered in the light of current financial constraints.

The Minister is very much involved in community development and things of that kind. There are many such people living alone and even though they are in receipt of free travel it is of little use to them; they cannot travel unless somebody is nominated to travel with them. I ask the Minister to consider this matter to see if some person in an organisation such as the organisation for the physically handicapped and so on could be nominated to travel with such people. I know too well of a large number of people entitled to this service who cannot use it. They never get outside their door. God knows, some arrangement should be made. The cost we are talking about is more or less a paper cost.

I am afraid the paper costs are a little heavier than the Deputy might realise. The estimated cost of doing this is almost £3 million. I think the Deputy will realise that in current circumstances that would be very difficult.

How did the Minister arrive at that cost of £3 million? Is it additional cost?

Additional cost.

How did the Minister arrive at that cost?

It is based on the number of invalidity pensioners who would not already be covered. A total of 457,000 are covered for free travel at present. The cost of extending the benefit as suggested by the Deputy would amount to just under £3 million.

How many of those people are incapable of walking, not mobile, physically handicapped, sitting in wheelchairs?

I do not have that information. The costs are done on the usage, the number of people who use the scheme. Surveys are done on the usage, so we pay CIE on the basis of usage. The estimated cost for 1987 is £25.96 million, just £26 million. I am afraid the pressure at the moment would be to keep that cost from rising further particularly because, as the Deputy will be aware, it is very much availed of especially by elderly people. The possibility of extending it further at this stage because of the cost is not great.

This is an excellent question, a very appropriate one. We are talking about physically handicapped, housebound people who cannot move out and who would occasionally like to benefit from this scheme. They have the benefit but they are unable to avail of it. You cannot put a cost of £3 million on it. I do not accept that.

I am afraid we must proceed by way of supplementary question.

Would the Minister give favourable consideration to this and not enter into the cutback mentality of bringing these unfortunate people into the front line of the Minister for Finance's cuts?

I will not accept any talk about cutbacks here because I had to fight fairly hard to keep this scheme for the people who have it. Let the Deputy not start talking to me about cutbacks.

There is no need for disorder at all. We have had an excellent Question Time.

There are 457,000 people benefiting from the free travel scheme. As far as the costings are concerned, that is real cost. That is the way the costings are estimated by the people who deal with the job. They know what they are talking about.

For the people we are talking about it will not cost £3 million.

The Minister said that over 450,000 people are availing of free travel. How many of those are invalidity pensioners? How can the substitution of another member of a family for a spouse increase the cost?

Because they are extra people. It means an extra person travelling. CIE will tell you very quickly they have an extra person there and they will charge us for that extra person. The Deputy should recognise that CIE at the moment have their own problems in meeting their costs. The Deputy asked about the numbers——

——on invalidity pensions who are availing of free travel.

That was not the question and therefore I do not have the information in the file. If the Deputy wishes, I will get him that information.

The question relates to invalidity pensions.

There are just over 40,000 who would be in a position to avail of this if the extension were granted.