asked the Minister for Health the total number of staff in the Health Education Bureau as of January 1987; the number of staff who have been transferred to his Department; the total cost of the redundancy payments to those who were made redundant; and the annual cost of their pensions to the Exchequer.

The number of staff employed in the Health Education Bureau in January 1987 was 26, 21 of whom were permanent and six temporary. Eight staff members were transferred to my Department.

The total cost of the redundancy payments made to those who opted for voluntary redundancy was £137,679.97 and the annual cost of their pensions is £36,610.11.

Would the Minister of State agree that because of the transfer of the eight people to the Department of Health there is no way whatsoever that the former programme of the Health Education Bureau in regard to education on AIDS, lifestyles, smoking and alcohol abuse can be continued in any meaningful way and that the spending of £138,000 on redundancy lump sum payments and £36,000 on pensions is a scandulous waste of public moneys? The Health Education Bureau should have been permitted to continue its public health work.

I would not agree with what the Deputy has said in relation to this matter because what we are now doing is integrating the former Health Education Bureau into the Department of Health. Deputy Desmond is aware of the expertise available within the Department in relation to all of the matters he has raised today. I would like to point out that the eight former staff members who were transferred to the Department were appointed in an unestablished capacity to the following grades: assistant principal, two; higher executive officer, one; executive officer, one and clerical officer, four. One of the two assistant principals has been assigned to the finance unit. The executive officer recently opted for voluntary redundancy and three of the four clerical officers have now indicated that they also wish to opt for the voluntary redundancy package.

The cost referred to in the reply includes moneys now due to be paid to the executive officer mentioned. In addition to the staff mentioned, a principal officer and an assistant principal from within the Department's staffing complement have also been assigned to the health promotion unit. Discussions are taking place with the Department of Finance concerning the overall staffing of the unit. This unit is now fully integrated within the Department and it has a budget of £1 million in 1988. Furthermore the expertise which is in the Department, as Deputy Desmond is well aware, is now being utilised in the different sections in this whole area. The fact that we have now integrated health education into the Department is a very wise and good move.

How can the Minister possibly contend that there is adequate staffing for public health education work in the Department when 16 senior staff have gone either on voluntary redundancy or early retirement from the Department, when 21 HEB staff are gone and when the budget for health education has been halved in the 1988 Estimates? How can the Minister seriously suggest that there is adequate staffing when the Department have not even published the information leaflet on the health services and entitlements for 1988 as yet, not to mention doing any real work of a comprehensive nature of public health education?

Health education is now an integrated part of the broader policy of health promotion, which will address the impact of social and economic factors on community health as well as the education of individuals about personal lifestyle and health care. That is what prompted the Government to establish a new structure for health promotion from 1 January 1988. That structure comprises of a health promotion unit in the Department, a broadly based advisory council on health promotion which will make recommendations on changes which might be made to improve the quality of health, a committee of Ministers reflecting the need for inter-sectional action and the collective commitment of the Government to promoting positive health. The health promotion unit have responsibility for developing health education campaigns as part of their overall remit. In the current year, for example, work has been undertaken in relation to smoking, AIDS, immunisation promotion, particularly in relation to measles, drug and alcohol abuse and cancer and nutrition, among other things. The unit will be working with other statutory and voluntary agencies in developing health education programmes. Approxmately £1 million will be spent on health promotion in 1988. This excludes the cost of salaries of those employed in the new unit and other non-pay costs which are provided for under the appropriate subheads in the health Estimates. Also, I have asked the health boards to give high priority to health promotion projects, in allocating their funds for 1988. Developments in this regard would be monitored by my Department during the year. In connection with the staff we have made contact with the Department of Finance in relation to staffing.

Deputy Flaherty.

May I ask a final supplementary?

I have called Deputy Flaherty. I will call the Deputy again.

Will the Minister admit that he is exhibiting the most extraordinary neck in trying to present this as anything other than a total rundown of health education services? Will he indicate what programmes being run by the Health Education Bureau are being retained and what new initiatives are planned for this year?

Induced amnesia.

If the Deputy wishes she can put down another question. She has not put down a question to the Minister or to myself in relation to what the Health Education Bureau were involved in.

The answer is "nothing".

I have outlined exactly what the new unit will be involved in in the coming year. We have to bear in mind the overall cutback in the health budget. The budget was £2 million in 1987 and it is £1 million in 1988. That money will be used for promotion. Because of the constraints and the cutbacks needed we had to take the action we have taken and at the end of the day the unit will prove to be more effective than the Health Education Bureau, or at least as effective.

It is very important that the——

I have allowed a lot of latitude on this question.

I am calling Deputy Barry Desmond for a final supplementary and then I am moving on to the next question.

Is the Minister aware that 17 people have died from AIDS, that there are another 40 people who are terminally ill from AIDS and that nothing whatsoever is being done in this area by way of public health awareness——

We are having repetition.

In the light of that, has the committee of Ministers——

I asked for a brief supplementary.

Have the committee actually met in the past five months and if so how many times have they met?

Deputy Desmond may or may not be aware that recently the Seanad had a two day debate on AIDS and endorsed the policy of my Department in relation to AIDS. We explained exactly the action we are taking and if the Deputy is interested I will send him a copy of the Seanad reports.

I have read the report.

I will send the Deputy a copy of the reports if he wishes to be made more aware of the AIDS problem. We in the Department take a very serious view of it and have set up a special committee chaired by the secretary of the Department to deal with AIDS. This special committee have met on numerous occasions. Alongside health promotion we have the AIDS committee in the Department.

I did not ask the Minister about that. I asked how many times the ministerial committee had met.

We are dealing with the situation. If the Deputy wishes to know the number of meetings held by the Ministers he can put down a question.

I want to make progress.

You are supposed to be a junior Minister, and you do not know.

They have not met at all. There has not been one meeting.

Question No. 11.