asked the Minister for Defence if the Defence Forces Interdepartmental Review Committee will be given sufficient scope of operation to allow them to hear complaints directly from all ranks in the Defence Forces.

29.

asked the Minister for Defence the revised terms of reference of the expanded committee on the Defence Forces; if they will be permanent or temporary; the term of office of the committee; the aspects of the Defence Forces which they will examine; when and to whom they will report; if the committee will be further expanded; and the frequency of their meetings.

(Limerick West): I propose to take Questions Nos. 3 and 29 together.

The committee who were set up in June 1988 have been established on a permanent basis and have been augmented by the addition of two former members of the Permanent Defence Force who have been appointed for an initial period of not longer than three years. Deputy Vincent Brady, Minister of State at the Departments of the Taoiseach and Defence, is the chairman of the committee who also comprise representatives of the Departments of the Taoiseach, Finance, Defence and Labour.

The committee will meet as and when necessary to consider such matters affecting the pay, allowances and conditions of members of the Defence Forces as may be referred to them by the Government or by the Minister for Defence. The military authorities will be entitled to make submissions to the committee in relation to any matters referred to them for consideration. Reports of the committee will be presented to Government by the Minister for Defence.

There is no time limit on the appointments of the chairman or the departmental representatives on the committee. No further enlargement of the committee is envisaged.

I should like to ask the Minister why serving members of the Defence Forces cannot have a representative on the committee.

(Limerick West): The committee were established, as the Deputy will be aware, to look into the pay, allowances and conditions of the members of the Defence Forces. It was agreed by the Government, at the request of the military authorities, that two retired officers of the Permanent Defence Force would be appointed to the committee.

How can, or how near can a private or a corporal get to the review committee with a complaint that he or she might have? I hope they will get a quicker response than I am getting from the Minister.

(Limerick West): If the Deputy will give me an opportunity I will reply to his question.

The Minister seems to have been taken aback somewhat.

(Limerick West): Every officer, private and NCO in the Army can, of course, make direct submissions to the committee through the Chief of Staff who makes submissions on a regular basis to the committee.

Arising form the Minister's reply, is he informing the Dáil that the normal chain of command can be broken by a corporal at the bottom of the line who has a complaint so that he or she can go directly to this interdepartmental review group? That is exactly what is required and I should like the Minister to restate it here in the Dáil.

(Limerick West): I am afraid the Deputy did not listen to my reply.

I thought I did.

(Limerick West): I said that officers, privates and NCOs have access to this committee through the Chief of Staff who can make submissions to the committee on an ongoing basis.

Question No. 4.

Surely, a Cheann Comhairle, I can ask another question?

I want to make progress on other questions also, Deputy Connaughton, and I am sure I will have the Deputy's co-operation.

Members have no independent access to this committee at all. The entire committee is just a sham exercise to let the Minister off the hook——

Deputy Shatter is eroding the precious time for Priority Questions.

Can I ask one further supplementary question?

Very good, Deputy.

Is the Minister aware that many hundreds of soldiers who are serving at present believe that their complaints will get nowhere because they have to go through a higher authority——

The Minister has confirmed that today.

Is the Minister saying that these soldiers will not have absolute linkage to this review group? The new review group will be no better for soldiers, corporals, privates and so on than what is there already. It is a sham and the Minister knows it.

We are not having questions now.

(Limerick West): This confirms very clearly and distinctly the lack of knowledge of Deputy Connaughton in regard to the military authorities.

The Minister should ask the soldiers concerned.

(Limerick West): Deputy Connaughton should be aware of the fact that discipline within the Army is carried out through the different officer corps and structures right up to the Chief of Staff.

The Minister is back tracking.

(Limerick West): I am not.

There is no change.

(Limerick West): It shows the Deputy's lack of knowledge of the Defence Forces——

Let us have another question. Question No. 4.

Please, Deputies.

How many applications——

Please, Deputy McCartan: I must remind Deputies that supplementary questions at this stage are confined to the Member who put down the question. Other Members are dis-orderly in intervening.

The answer——

Deputy McCartan, please desist. Did you not hear me, Deputy?

A Cheann Comhairle——

Sorry, Deputy. Question No. 4.

For the first time since the twenties there is a crisis in the Defence Forces.

There is a lack of confidence in the Minister.