asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs the impact on Irish emigrants to the United States of the Kennedy-Simpson Bill; and whether he has any proposals to improve the position of Irish illegals in that country.

10.

asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs the amount of money which will be provided for immigrant groups in the United States, under the terms of the Programme for Government 1989-1993; the manner in which the money will be allocated; if it is intended to provide similar financial support for immigrant groups in other countries; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

11.

asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs the current estimate of the number of undoucmented Irish in the United States; the new initiatives which he proposes in relation to achieving legal status for them; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

21.

asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs the amount of funding which the Government intend to provide for immigrant support services in the United States as outlined in the Fianna Fáil-Progressive Democrats Programme for Government 1989-1993; and when these finances will be made available.

36.

asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs the plans the Government has to promote further legislative initiatives in the United States to ease the plight of the undocumented Irish.

I propose to take Questions Nos. 1, 10, 11, 21, 36 together.

As has rightly been pointed out the recently published Programme for Government makes provision for emigrants' welfare funding in the US. This is the first time such provision has been made and is a firm demonstration of the strong interest on the part of this Government in the welfare of all of our emigrants, but more especially that of the estimated 50,000-60,000 out-of-status, in the United States. The question of the amount of funding and its utilisation to maximum effect is under active consideration at this time.

Deputies will be aware of the singular success of the Donnelly Visa Extension Programme which is expected to make 10,000 extra US visas available to Irish citizens in each of the years 1989 and 1990. While this programme has proven to be most effective it was nevertheless a short term response to a long term problem. The Government would view the Kennedy-Simpson Bill, which was recently approved by the US Senate and which contains provisions which are most favourable to potential emigrants from this country, as going a long way to solving the problem of reasonable access to the US on a regular basis for Irish people.

I would like to publicly express my appreciation to Senator Kennedy and also to Senator Simpson for their commitment and dedication in steering this bill through the Senate. The majority 81-17 vote by which it was passed is a fitting testimony to their hard work.

While the Government, and our friends in Congress, will watch with particular interest the progress of a complimentary bill to Kennedy-Simpson in the House of Representatives, Deputies can be assured that we will continue to explore every available avenue to assist, and regularise the position of, our out-of-status citizens in the US.

I welcome the Minister's reply and his promise to take immediate action in regard to funding for immigrant groups in America. Will the Minister give details of who will get the money? Will the Minister say if funding will be available for those groups in the US in 1989?

The question of funding is being considered and I will inform the Deputy when we have reached decisions in regard to it.

We warmly welcome the position in regard to the Kennedy-Simpson Bill but is the Minister aware that one will need up to 60 points before one qualifies to enter a lottery for a visa under that Bill? Is the Minister aware that to be English-speaking is no longer an advantage with the result that Irish applicants will not be in as advantageous a position as they were under the previous Bill? Will the Minister accept that the Kennedy-Simpson Bill will do little to help the undocumented aliens in America? Will the Government pursue further initiatives to help them?

The Deputy will be aware, that the Kennedy-Simpson Bill was passed by Congress by a big majority and that it is now before the House of Representatives. Deputies can rest assured that their views on the Bill will be conveyed to the friends of Ireland in the House of Representatives.

Deputy De Rossa rose.

I am sorry Deputy, the Chair is obliged to call firstly Deputies who have questions tabled in respect of the subject matter.

When they are not offering the Chair should at least call a Deputy who is offering.

I am calling Deputy Jim Higgins who has a question on the matter.

My question, No. 11, asked the Minister the estimate of the number of undocumented Irish in the United States but the Minister does not appear to have addressed that issue. Is the Minister in a position to say how many people of Irish origin in the US are listed as undocumented?

They have passports.

I dealt with that issue in the course of my reply but I will repeat the relevant portion of my statement for the benefit of the Deputy. I said that the recently published Programme for Government made provision for emigrants' welfare funding in the US. I pointed out that this was the first time such a provision had been made and that it was a firm demonstration of the strong interest on the part of the Government in the welfare of all our emigrants, but more especially that of the estimated 50,000 to 60,000 out-of-status in the United States.

I want to put a supplementary question to the Minister in regard to Question No. 10 from The Workers Party and in the name of Deputy McCartan. As the Chair will be aware spokespersons table questions in the name of other Deputies when they have used their allocation.

The Deputy will appreciate that Members who table questions and are in the Chamber when those questions are called will be called by the Chair.

I do not have any problem with that procedure if those Deputies offer. On this occasion they are not offering.

They offered and I called them.

Will the Minister say what financial assistance the Government propose to give to immigrant organisations other than those in the United States, particularly those in the United Kingdom, Canada and Australia.

That will have to be dealt with by way of a separate question from the Deputy. Information in relation to the US scene is all that is contained in my brief.

I do not think I need table a separate question because Deputy McCartan asked the Minister if it was intended to provide similar financial support for immigrant groups in other countries. Deputy McCartan asked the Minister to make a statement on the matter and that is what I am asking the Minister to do.

I will have to communicate with the Deputy on that point. I assumed, probably incorrectly, that Deputy McCartan's question referred to the United States. I apologise for that but I will obtain the information and convey it to the Deputy as soon as possible.

Will the Minister define for the benefit of the House and, perhaps, the press gallery, what is meant by "undocumented" and "out-of-status emigrants"? Two terms have been used and from the point of view of clarity it might be useful if he defined them. Are they people without passports?

No, as the Deputy knows full well there is no question of people being there without passports. It is a question of people working there without the necessary documentation.

Illegals.

Yes.

Reference has been made to the Fianna Fáil-Progressive Democrats document as a basis for some of these questions. That document says the Government are going to channel money through the consulates to the emigration working committees. The money which goes to emigrants in Britain, the only place money goes to from this country, is channelled through DÍON from the Department of Labour for social purposes, to help people who are homeless, etc. Is the intention the same with regard to the United States or will there be a different emphasis on the money there? Will it help emigrants to change their illegal status, as Deputy Quinn said, to legal status or will it be for social purposes only?

This matter is under consideration at present. As I said, I hope to be in a position reasonably soon to make a more comprehensive statement on it. Perhaps it would be best if the Deputy waited until such time as the matter has been decided and then I will let him know.

The figure of 50,000 to 60,000 emigrants which the Minister referred to is not generally accepted; it is thought to be much higher by other groups in America.

Media estimates have put the figure much higher than that but the Central Statistics Office figures and data produced by the United States Immigration and Naturalisation Service indicate a true figure of 50,000 to 60,000 out-of-status Irish citizens. I would not like to say that my figure is definitely correct but the indicators to us show that it is propably nearer to the true figure than some of the figures being suggested by the media. We could argue but the Deputy knows full well that——

Nobody knows the answer.

Nobody really knows.

Let us deal with another question. Question No. 2.