asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he will consider extending the free fuel scheme to recipients of disability benefit given the fact that a large number of such people are on long-term disability benefit and such an extension would put them on a par with long-term unemployment assistance recipients; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

70.

asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he will consider including people who are in receipt of disability benfit in the free fuel scheme; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

I propose to take Questions Nos. 5 and 70 together. The national fuel scheme is intended to assist persons dependent on long-term social welfare or health board payments who are unable to provide for their heating needs.

Disability benefit is essentially a short-term payment in respect of temporary incapacity for work. Where incapacity has lasted for 12 months and is likely to last for a further 12 months, it is open to the person concerned to apply for invalidity pension.

Invalidity pension is a qualifying payment for the purposes of the national fuel scheme and fuel allowances are payable to invalidity pensioners who satisfy the other conditions of the scheme. There is also provision under the supplementary welfare allowances scheme whereby assistance can be given where a person has exceptional heating needs by reason of ill-health or infirmity. In this way, the heating needs of the long-term ill are catered for and I have no proposal for further extensions along the lines suggested.

May I ask the Minister if he is aware that it is extremely difficult to be awarded an invalidity pension, that they are becoming rarer as the years go by and, that increasing numbers of those people are losing such benefits? Would the Minister have before him figures for the average time people are on disability benefit? To my knowledge there are people who have been on disability benefit for 17 years and upwards. In view of that and the fact that people in receipt of disability benefit are currently in receipt of £5 less than the long term unemployed, and may have been on it for many years, does he not view this as a serious anomaly? Where a person has been in receipt of disability benefit for over a year would he consider extending this benefit and other benefits which are referred to in Question No. 9?

If we reach it.

The number in receipt of invalidity pensions would be increasing rather than reducing. It is open to people on long term disability benefit to apply for invalidity pension after a year. The invalidity pension is a taxable benefit. Consequently some people may not wish, especially if there is a second partner involved who has an income, to be in receipt of a taxable benefit and therefore may not apply. That is known to be the position in a proportion of cases. It is not widely appreciated that if a person is on long term disability benefit and is ill enough to require additional heating that is open to them under the scheme and many people are being paid through that mechanism at present. The total number on disability benefit for over 15 months is 34,000.

Would the Minister agree that five years on disability benefit is equal to the classification long term social welfare recipient and equally should be entitled to the free fuel? Surely it is our collective responsibility to assist people who are on low incomes and disability benefit or invalidity pensions to enhance their standard of living from what is a very meagre level. It should not be our policy to force people to take up invalidity pensions which might bring that family unit into the tax net because of a meagre pension by the spouse of a claimant.

The disability benefit is a short term payment although there may be people who receive it for a long time. In most other countries it is not paid for any longer than 15 months. At that stage one either goes on invalidity benefit or stop receiving the benefit. The relationship between those different payments is a whole debate in itself. Essentially, it is a short term payment and as such it is equivalent to many other short term payments. To extend these benefits to short term payments would be extremely expensive overall. As the system operates at present there is a mechanism for people on long term disability benefit who are in need of heating to receive the free fuel.

Deputy Byrne rose.

Please Deputy. Deputy Flaherty wants a final question.

In view of the fact that the Minister confirmed there are 34,000 people——

A brief question Deputy please.

——on disability benefit, would he accept that they need a great deal of help? Would he further accept that the scheme he refers to is only available to people who have medical problems and that that is the only way in which they can receive fuel assistance? As the scheme is being managed now——

The Deputy has made her point.

——it is anomalous to treat them differently.

Deputy Byrne rose.

May I ask the Deputy and all concerned if they think it is fair and satisfactory, especially to those Deputies who expected replies to their questions today, that we should make such ponderous progress as to deal with five questions in three quarters of an hour? This is simply not good enough.

It is not everyday I get the opportunity——

I appreciate that but the position is as I have outlined it. This is not the way I like to deal with Question Time. All questions are important to the Chair and he likes to get a reasonable number disposed of every day. A brief supplementary Deputy, please.

I appreciate the point. It is not every day I question a Minister.

I accept that. It is my desire to facilitate Deputies and perhaps their questions could be brief and relevant.

Anyone who is on long term disability benefit is free after one year to apply for invalidity pension. That is and has been the position. There are many people on long term disability benefit who are not ill enough to be on invalidity pension; I think the Deputy is aware of that. If a person is very ill they can come in under the other method. The criteria for invalidity pension raise a different question.