asked the Minister for Health the way in which he intends to deal with the huge waiting list for dentures for the elderly; if, in particular, he will introduce a class of denturist or dental technician, as recommended by the Commission on Health Funding, to supply dentures directly to the public; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

The provision of dentures is part of the general dental service provided by the health boards for eligible persons. Therefore, the question of allocating funds for dentures, or to any other area of the dental services, is a matter for the health boards in the first instance. However, I am concerned at the level of the dental service for adults generally and am pursuing the provision of additional funding at present.

On the question of introducing denturists, this is a matter for the Dental Council initially. The council recently set up a special sub-group to undertake a full objective examination of denturism and it is expected that the sub-group will complete their investigation later this month. The Dental Council expect to be in a position to make recommendation in the matter early in the New Year and I intend to pursue them to ensure that the work is completed quickly. I propose to consider the views of the Dental Council before making a decision in the matter.

Is the Minister aware of the statement in the working party report on services for the elderly issued this time last year that 72 per cent of the elderly have no natural teeth and that a survey in west Galway indicated that 40 per cent of the elderly there had no teeth and no dentures? They made the comment that the absence of teeth is a contributory factor to malnutrition in the elderly. Is the Minister aware that according to the report the cost of fitting dentures is about £500 but that dental technicians could do the job for £140? The recommendation was that in the interest of providing dentures to elderly people on low incomes the Dental Council should introduce a scheme to permit dental technicians to fit dentures. Would the Minister agree that he and the dentists are responsible for malnutrition amongst the elderly since they are prevented from getting dentures?

I am aware of the working party report on the elderly but I am not sure I would agree with the figures the Deputy has given pertaining to west Galway.

These figures are based on a survey, the only such survey.

There are some peculiar reasons that could be the case in certain parts of that constituency. The Minister for Health and I are totally committed to the appointment of denturists. We have had negotiations and discussions and the Dental Council have set up a group to consider the matter. We expect to have their report in the new year and will make a decision immediately thereafter. We are anxious to ensure the best possible dental service at the cheapest cost to the taxpayer.

The Restrictive Practices Commission recommended in 1982 that the supplying of dentures to the public should not be restricted by law to dentists alone. The most recent report on health funding also recommended that the use of auxiliaries could play a major role in improving the availability of dental services and would help achieve a more cost-effective use of scarce resources.

It seems we are having quotations at Question Time, which is not in order.

The Minister has replied that the Dental Council are doing something about it. The Act was passed under the previous Minister for Health in 1984. Is the Minister aware that the Dental Council are totally controlled by dentists and that they have consistently opposed the use of denturists, a fact pointed out in all these reports?

Deputy Mac Giolla has made his point.

The Minister has the power under the Act to compel them to permit dental technicians to fit dentures. Will he use that power to make them do so?

Under the 1985 Act it would be possible for the Dental Council, with the approval of the Minister, to devise a scheme for the introduction of denturists. We have had active negotiations on this matter.

For five years.

That was long before the Minister and I had any responsibility in this area. We are actively pursuing this matter and are pretty optimistic that we will be successful. I do not hold the negative view that the Dental Council will not be positive in their conclusions. I hope they will and I am confident we can improve the position in the new year.

Can I tell the Minister of State that this report has been concluded by the sub-group of the Dental Council and it recommends that denturist do not be created? That is the latest evidence available. I am surprised the Minister is not aware of this information. In view of it, what proposals does the Minister now have to comply with the recommendations of all the reports referred to and to provide elderly patients with dentures at a reasonable cost? Is he not aware that the Dental Council have a direct vested interest and will not set up the post of dental auxiliary-denturist because of that?

This is repetition, I want to facilitate Deputy Howlin also.

I do not know what report Deputy Yates is referring to——

The report of the sub-group.

The report to which the Deputy referred has not been made available and is not due to be concluded until after Christmas. It has not come to the Minister, the Department or myself.

The Minister is seriously out of touch.

I will be meeting the council in early December to discuss this matter and they will be reporting after Christmas.

The Minister does not know what is happening in his own Department.

There is no point in making statements that are not factual. We are totally committed to having the position regarding denturists facilitated as quickly as possible.

A final question from Deputy Howlin.

I am stunned by the Minister's response so far. Is he aware that some health boards are now writing to applicants seeking dental treatment. I will quote from one: "The only service now available to eligible——

Quotations are not allowed at Question Time.

The Minister has ignored reports although everybody knows that the way to improve the situation is to allow denturists to provide dentures. I know of cases where people have had extractions done for the relief of pain but are not in a position to have dentures provided because they cannot afford them.

The Deputy is making a speech.

Will the Minister acknowledge that it is his responsibility to make the decision in this regard, not the Dental Council or anybody else? The buck stops with the Minister.

I want to deal with Question No. 14, in the Deputy's name.

The Minister wishes to reply.

I have heard Deputy Howlin reading letters of this kind into the record on previous occasions. We are actively pursuing this matter and we hope to bring it to a successful conclusion——

What does that mean to the old age pensioners?

When the Deputy Minister was in charge——

The Minister is responsible now and we have been listening to this for three years.

When the Deputy Minister was in charge he ignored the situation. Do not try to impede us when we are making progress.

Do the Dental Council know what is going on in the Department?

Deputy Mac Giolla rose.

I have called Question No. 14 and that is that.

It is only fair that should ask——

Please, Deputy Mac Giolla, I gave you quite some latitude on this matter.

I had only two supplementaries on this question. If the report turns down the recommendations——

Which it does.

——is the Minister prepared to take on the dentists and force them to implement the recommendations?

He will set up another committee.

We will await the report's recommendations and will make our decision then.