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Dáil

Order of Business.

It is proposed to take Nos. 11, 14, 15 and 12. It is also proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders that: (1) Business shall be interrupted at 10.30 p.m. tonight; (2) No. 11 shall be decided without debate; (3) The proceedings on the remaining Stages of No. 14, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 5 p.m. by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only amendments set down by the Minister for Tourism, Transport and Communications.

(4) In the case of the Supplementary Estimates to which No. 15 refers, the following arrangements shall apply: (a) The questions necessary to bring the proceedings on Votes 34 and 25 to a conclusion shall be put not later than 5.45 p.m. and 6.45 p.m. respectively; (b) In the case of Vote 34 the speech of each Member called on shall not exceed ten minutes and a Minister of State may be called on a second time to make a speech in reply to the debate not exceeding five minutes. (c) In the case of Vote 25, the speech of the Minister for the Environment shall not exceed ten minutes; the speech of each other Member called on shall not exceed 15 minutes and the speech of the Minister or Minister of State replying to the debate shall not exceed five minutes.

(5) If a division is demanded on any Supplementary Estimate today, further proceedings thereon shall be postponed and the proceedings on all such Supplementary Estimates and on the Supplementary Estimates for Agriculture and Food and Health (divisions on which were postponed on Friday, 13 December, in accordance with a resolution of the Dáil of 12 December) shall, notwithstanding the said resolution, be decided by one question which shall be put at 6.45 p.m. today and any division demanded thereon shall be taken forthwith; (6) The Minister for Finance shall speak at the commencement of the debate on No. 12 for not more than 30 minutes and he shall be called upon not later than 4.50 p.m. tomorrow to make a speech in reply not exceeding 10 minutes; the speech of each other Member called on shall not exceed 20 minutes.

Private Members' Business shall be No. 23.

Comment on this
Seán Treacy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

Is the proposal that business be interrupted at 10.30 p.m. tonight agreed? Agreed. Is it agreed that No. 11 shall be decided without debate? Agreed. Is it agreed that the proceedings on the remaining Stages of No. 14, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 5 p.m. by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only amendments set down by the Minister for Tourism, Transport and Communications?

Comment on this
John Bruton Mr. J. Bruton Fine Gael

My party object to the imposition of this artificial time limit on the debate on the proposal to sell the B & I line because it is a very controversial sale. I understand that only one of the 20 amendments tabled has been debated so far. As this time limit has been imposed it is probable that the majority of amendments tabled by Members of this House will not even be discussed, let alone voted on.

Comment on this

On behalf of The Workers' Party I, too, object to the guillotine on the B & I debate. While it is useful to have squeezed the concession of an extra hour-and-a-quarter for debate today it is obviously not adequate to deal with the other 19 amendments which have still to be reached. It is clear from the debate so far that there are many substantial issues yet to be teased out by the Members of this House and I, therefore, indicate that we are opposing the guillotine.

Comment on this
Seán Treacy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

On the Order of Business the question is: "That the proceedings on the remaining Stages of No. 14, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 5 p.m. by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only amendments set down by the Minister for Tourism, Transport and Communications."

Comment on this
Division Carried

Question put.

Tá 71
·
Níl 65

Do you agree with this result?

Seán Treacy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

I must ask if the proposals for dealing with the Supplementary Estimates in respect of Votes 34 and 25 are agreed to. Agreed?

Comment on this
John Bruton Mr. J. Bruton Fine Gael

The amounts involved here are not very significant, but would the Taoiseach not agree that this sort of restricted debate is inadequate as a means of dealing with financial business of any kind, and can he give the House some assurance that he has proposals for Dáil reform to allow proper committee style examination of both Supplementary Estimates and main Estimates?

Comment on this

This procedure is one that we have adopted for some years. It is really an opportunity for the House to discuss the Estimates in an overall context.

Comment on this
John Bruton Mr. J. Bruton Fine Gael

This is the Supplementary Estimate.

Comment on this

I thought the Deputy was talking about discussion on the Book of Estimates. With regard to the 1992 Estimates, we intend to devote every Friday, right up to the summer, to discuss the Estimates in detail.

Comment on this
John Bruton Mr. J. Bruton Fine Gael

Thank you, that is a distinct improvement. Will the Taoiseach allow for some type of committee discussions on the Estimates, where questions could be asked and answered and dialogue might develop, rather than the set piece speeches of the traditional kind which do not involve consideration of the Estimates, within the meaning of the Constitution?

Comment on this

I could not accept that off the top of my head.

Comment on this
Jim O'Keeffe Mr. J. O'Keeffe Fine Gael

Will the Taoiseach consider it?

Comment on this
John Bruton Mr. J. Bruton Fine Gael

It is not the first time it was suggested.

Comment on this
Seán Barrett Mr. S. Barrett Fine Gael

The Standing Orders of the Dáil were amended to allow for that type of debate on Estimates, but the order to keep that type of debate in place was never renewed.

While I am on my feet I would also ask is this the new style of Government? Traditionally we had agreement in this House between the Whips on the Order of Business and if that agreement broke down, there was holy war here during my time as Chief Whip. Pairs were cancelled and quorums were called. Every day of the week now we come in here to see the Government ramming their business through by way of a vote. It is disgraceful that this happens.

Comment on this
Seán Treacy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

Please, Deputy Barrett. May I take it that the question I put to the House is agreed? Agreed. The next question I must put is if the proposal for the taking of divisions on Supplementary Estimates at 6.45 p.m. today is agreed? Agreed. The last question is — are the arrangements for dealing with No. 12 agreed? Agreed.

Comment on this
John Bruton Mr. J. Bruton Fine Gael

Could the Taoiseach indicate the time frame for the publication of the White Paper on Maastricht? The Taoiseach will have read in the papers an indication that public opinion is potentially quite uncertain about this very important change. It is important that the Dáil and the Government should inform public opinion at the earliest possible moment on the implications of Maastricht so that debate in the lead up to the referendum will be well informed.

Comment on this
Seán Treacy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

The matter to which the Deputy refers is not appropriate to the Order of Business.

Comment on this
John Bruton Mr. J. Bruton Fine Gael

It is, because the referendum will require legislation.

Comment on this
Jim O'Keeffe Mr. J. O'Keeffe Fine Gael

Promised legislation.

Comment on this
Seán Treacy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

Let us have regard to procedure.

Comment on this
John Bruton Mr. J. Bruton Fine Gael

May I put it in a form with which the Chair could not possibly find fault?

Comment on this
Seán Treacy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

Try it again.

Comment on this
John Bruton Mr. J. Bruton Fine Gael

Would the Taoiseach not agree that in the context of the promised legislation to introduce a referendum to approve the Treaty amendments agreed at Maastricht, it is important that the Government should plan that in advance and publish a White Paper soon so that public opinion will be well informed?

Comment on this
Seán Treacy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

I have given the Deputy quite some latitude in the matter.

Comment on this

It is only a technicality, but there is no legislation promised within the terms of the Chair's rulings. It is likely that there will be legislation and that there will be a referendum, but I have already indicated here on several occasions that the preparation of the White Paper is underway and that it will be brought forward as early as possible in the New Year.

Comment on this

Is the Taoiseach going back on that promise?

Comment on this
Seán Treacy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

I am sorry, this cannot go on, Deputy Enright. This is quite disorderly.

Comment on this

The Taoiseach said that it is likely.

Comment on this
Seán Treacy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

Deputy Enright shall obey the Chair.

Comment on this

Will the Taoiseach confirm that there "will be one" as distinct from their "might be one"?

Comment on this

I would like to ask the Taoiseach two questions on the Order of Business. Given that the Government have made provision for an extra 22,000 people on the live register next year, may I ask the Taoiseach if the task force set up by the Government, I think, last June have reported or will they report in the near future? Second, Dé Luain seo caite, dúirt an Taoiseach go mbunófaí Teilifís Ghaeilge i 1992. An bhfuil suim airgid curtha in áireamh sna Meastacháin don tseirbhís seo?

Comment on this
Seán Treacy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

I have doubts about the validity of the first question.

Comment on this

Níl sé sin in ord.

Comment on this

Níl aon airgead.

Comment on this
Seán Treacy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

Níl sé sin in ord anois.

Comment on this
Jim Mitchell Mr. J. Mitchell Fine Gael

The Ceann Comhairle should decide on that.

Comment on this
Seán Treacy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

I need hardly tell the House that we have a lot of business to conduct and limited time to deal with it. Please do not erode that precious time.

Comment on this

After last Monday many people are expecting Teilifís Ghaeilge.

Comment on this
Seán Barrett Mr. S. Barrett Fine Gael

May I ask the Taoiseach when the Extradition Bill will be published?

Comment on this

I cannot give the Deputy a date but it is being worked on.

Comment on this
Seán Barrett Mr. S. Barrett Fine Gael

Is this the urgent Bill?

Comment on this

It is.

Comment on this
Seán Barrett Mr. S. Barrett Fine Gael

We have known for 12 months——

Comment on this
Seán Treacy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

This should not lead to argument.

Comment on this

Let me remind the Deputy that his Government left it for 12 months and to us to bring it in the last time.

Comment on this

That is correct.

Comment on this
Jim O'Keeffe Mr. J. O'Keeffe Fine Gael

I circulated a Bill 12 months ago and, like everything else, the Taoiseach objected to it.

Comment on this
Jim Mitchell Mr. J. Mitchell Fine Gael

On the Order of Business some weeks ago the Tánaiste, who was deputising for the Taoiseach, said that there would be a local government Bill which would provide for the holding of district council elections in 1992. Is this the case and, if so, when will the Bill be introduced and when will the elections take place?

Comment on this
Seán Treacy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

Is legislation promised in this area?

Comment on this

I do not like to be peevish but I have answered that question about ten times.

Comment on this

May I ask a question relating to order, Sir? On the Order of Business we are entitled to ask questions relating to legislation.

Comment on this
Seán Treacy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

That is so.

Comment on this

It would appear — and I would like your guidance — that the Taoiseach considers it to be an intrusion if a question is repeatedly asked. Unfortunately, we do not get a reply, and we will continue——

Comment on this
Seán Treacy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

Many questions, Deputy, have been ruled out by the Chair as being out of order.

Comment on this

I answered it yesterday.

Comment on this
Jim Mitchell Mr. J. Mitchell Fine Gael

The Taoiseach did not answer it. A Cheann Comhairle——

Comment on this
Seán Treacy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

Deputy Mitchell, no argument now.

Comment on this

We might as well go home.

Comment on this

In relation to the legislation which has been promised and which will reorganise the Eastern Health Board into five district areas each with an acute general hospital, may I ask the Taoiseach, having regard to the fact that no money has been provided in the Book of Estimates for the Tallaght General Hospital, if he intends to go ahead with that legislation and when he will enable the Tallaght hospital project to proceed?

Comment on this
Seán Treacy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

The Deputy is circumventing a ruling in relation to the Order of Business.

Comment on this

There will be a flood of information on that matter.

Comment on this

Can I get a reply?

Comment on this

No legislation has been promised. What the Deputy is referring to are administrative proposals.

Comment on this