10 Mr. Cox asked the Minister for Justice the plans, if any, she has to provide financial support to help fund the Irish Criminal Justice Research Centre established a year ago with the aim of conducting empirical research of the criminal justice system, including sentencing practice; if she has received an application in this regard; and if she will make a statement on the matter.

24 Mr. Molloy asked the Minister for Justice the plans, if any, she has to provide financial support to help fund the Irish Criminal Justice Research Centre established a year ago with the aim of conducting empirical research on the criminal justice system, including sentencing practice; if she has received an application in this regard; and if she will make a statement on the matter.

I propose to take Questions Nos. 10 and 24 together.

I was impressed by the prospectus prepared by the Irish Criminal Justice Research Institute in the context of its application to me for financial support in September 1993. The proposed work programme of the institute included research into the operation of the criminal justice system as a whole including policing, prisons, sentencing practice, probation and welfare services, victim support services as well as aspects of juvenile justice.

It is important to realise, however, that developments in some of these areas are already under way. The Law Reform Commission, for example, is in the process of completing its work in relation to sentencing policy having published a comprehensive consultation paper on the subject. My Department has been working on a comprehensive prisons policy document and a proposed juvenile justice Bill and I expect to be in a position to publish both this year. Furthermore, a research unit will be established at the Garda Training College to undertake practical and mission orientated research of relevance to a modern police force.

It would be difficult to justify expenditure in the region of £50,000 per annum sought by the institute on an open ended basis in these circumstances, particularly at a time of scarce financial resources. The main deciding factor, however, is that there are no funds at my disposal which could be made available to the institute at present.

Has the Minister any idea what percentage of the £66 million to be allocated to her Department over the next few years for law enforcement and detecting and reducing crime will be spent on research?

I do not have that precise information to hand but the House should realise that an extensive amount of research has been undertaken already. Perhaps I should read into the record some aspect of the research already undertaken. For instance, we have had the Whitaker Committee in relation to the prison system, the Walsh Committee which looked at Garda training, the Law Reform Commission which engages in a continuous review of our laws, the Committee on Court Practice and Procedure, the Martin Committee on certain aspects of criminal procedures, the Committee on Public Safety and Crowd Control, the Interdepartmental group on the administration of justice and the Interdepartmental group on urban crime and disorder. We have carried out extensive research, and have had it carried out on our behalf independently. People are seeking action, claiming that we do not need more committees, commissions or reports. The substantial funding announced in the law and order package earlier in the year provides for the kind of action the public is demanding.

I accept the Minister's contention and agree there is an appetite for action on the part of the general public in relation to crime in general. Will the Minister agree that all policy is deficient if it is not firmly grounded and empirical, incorporating research already undertaken? On the proposal to build a new women's prison, how much research has been conducted into alternatives to prison for women offenders who are, in the main, shoplifters, non-violent offenders?

There is a later question on an alternative to imprisonment for women. All of us agree that we need more research, but we cannot allow that to halt necessary developments. I am glad Deputy O'Donnell agrees that the public is demanding action. It is important to move ahead with developments already promised while at the same time ensuring that the research unit, particularly at the Garda Training College in Templemore, is up and running very shortly.

The Minister referred to both the Law Reform Commission and the Whitaker Committee. Would she agree that the Whitaker report and the report of the Law Reform Commission on sentencing were both critical of the absence of adequate information on the whole criminal justice system? Would she agree that one of the main reasons for resisting any funding for the Irish Criminal Justice Research Institute is that it would be independent, that its information would be available to everybody, including the Opposition, who are badly in need of such independent source of information? Would she agree that it is time to reconsider her attitude to the Fine Gael Private Members' Bill to create a national bureau of crime statistics since it is clear that the Garda crime statistics do not reflect the true level of crime but rather the level of reported crime, that the prison statistics are outrageously out of date and do not inform us of anything and that there is no information on sentencing policy available to the Judiciary or to legislators?

Deputy Gay Mitchell tried to raise the National Bureau of Crime Statistics. Since we have only completed our discussion of that Bill in the House he is fully aware of my views on it. With regard to his assertion that the Irish Criminal Justice Research Institute would be independent, I hope he is not suggesting that the Law Reform Commission is not independent, that the Martin Committee, the Whitaker Committee or that any of them were stymied by officials of my Department or anybody elsewhere. All of them have been independent and advanced very radical proposals. In so far as is possible within the scarce financial resources available to my Department many of the recommendations contained in those reports have already been implemented or are in the process of implementation. I have no reason to stop funding to any research institute merely because it will be independent. The Deputy knows that during the past 14 months I have been very open with him and other Opposition spokespersons. I have not tried to hide any statistics or relevant information and I intend to proceed in that way.

Would the Minister accept that the reports and research to which she referred were very much task-oriented and that we need an independent body undertaking research in the overall area of crime and justice so that we can all be armed with proper research to enable an informed discussion on the whole area of crime and justice on which decisions can be based and we do not rely entirely on "top of the head" solutions to what are very serious problems for the entire community?

I hope Deputy Gilmore is not implying that we rely on "top of the head" solutions. I hope we take cognisance of the recommendations of the various reports put before us. I have no objection whatsoever to independent research into the whole criminal law area. I said I was very impressed with the prospectus prepared by the Irish Criminal Justice Research Institute but that I did not see there was justification for the Department of Justice to give £50,000 per annum on an open-ended basis to the institute to undertake its work. I very much welcome the work the institute will undertake. I look forward to whatever reports it may publish for the public. We will look in a very objective manner at whatever recommendations it may make.

I am disappointed the Minister is not prepared even to consider funding the Irish Criminal Justice Research Institute. With the appetite to respond to crime and punishment in a heavy-handed law and order way, there is a danger of an anti-intellectual approach to the problems associated with criminology. As requested by other Members, I would ask the Minister to reconsider that decision given that, since this institute is based in a university, providing students with employment, it would augment our collective knowledge and understanding of the reasons behind the committing of crime?

I said I welcomed the establishment of the institute and am supportive of the work it is doing, but I do not have a mechanism within my Department whereby I can spend £50,000 annually towards the work of the institute. That does not mean that the work of the institute does not go ahead. There are very scarce financial resources available to my Department. Even if, within those resources, there was money available, there is no way, under present regulations, that I could make £50,000 available to the institute annually.

I suggest that the Minister cut back on some of the expenses of the visiting committees.