I want to revisit yesterday's refusal by the Taoiseach to answer questions put to him about the effective dismantling of the community employment scheme. Is it the case that his own backbenchers share the concern of this side of the House at the destruction of community employment? Does the Taoiseach agree it is pointless putting questions to him after the publication of the Book of Estimates? His backbenchers are in need of support now from this side of the House. Does he acknowledge the beneficial and productive work being done in the community by community employment? Does he acknowledge that disadvantaged communities in particular will suffer as a result of the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment's proposals to reduce the number from 28,000 to 15,500 next year? Will he intervene to prevent her and the Minister for Finance colluding to inflict further pain on the communities most in need of the effort put in by community employment? Will he side with his backbenchers against the McCreevy-Harney axis? The work being done in parts of my constituency – I know Deputy O'Connor will tell the Taoiseach at the parliamentary party meeting later this morning about the valuable work being done in the community – is replicated in every constituency throughout the country. There will not be any point giving answers to the House after the publication of the Book of Estimates. Will the Taoiseach prevent that happening at this time?

As I said yesterday, I replied to the position for 2002. I am not in a position to reply for 2003. I am glad that community employment has become popular. I remember when the social employment scheme was first set up by Deputy Quinn – it later became the community employment scheme which I, as Minister for Finance, extended considerably – it was seen as an excuse for dodging the high unemployment figures of the day. I am glad the House is concerned about its enormous social value. A review is being undertaken by FÁS and the number will be clear in the Estimates. The figure for this year is 25,000. There are also training schemes. The PPF mandated a review of active labour market programmes, including the CE. That is currently in progress under the standing committee on the labour market which includes all the relevant people.

Deputy Rabbitte mentioned its value to the community. It is of benefit to the health and education sectors, although it has changed in terms of the latter as it now has a permanent role in that sector. There are some aspects of it which can be streamlined. There is little value in some parts of it, but other parts have enormous value. I am sure it will continue in the future after the review is completed. I and my backbenchers support it. The necessary resources are available to keep a meaningful number of people on community employment. It is a major difficulty when we have to give work permits to people from outside the country to do jobs that many people on community employment are well able to do and should be given an opportunity to do. That option should be there. It should not be seen as an end in itself or as a permanent job because that was not the intention. We will try to move people away from community employment and into meaningful employment. The review will assist in that regard.

It is not a question of continuing the scheme in the future but of whether the Taoiseach will prevent the reduction of participants in the scheme to 15,500. There is no point telling the House the situation for 2002 as it is almost over. We are concerned about 2003 before the Book of Estimates is published. The Taoiseach referred to the review being carried out by FÁS. Is it the case that FÁS is carrying out the review only at the political direction of the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment? As regards the transfer of places to the Department of Education and Science, is it the case that they are already factored into this year's figures? If the Taoiseach is not concerned at the prospect of Deputy O'Connor raising this issue at the PLP meeting, I can threaten him with Deputy Conor Lenihan because he will also raise it.

The Deputy's minute has concluded.

Will the Taoiseach side with his backbenchers or with the Minister for Finance, Deputy McCreevy, and the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Harney, to prevent this happening?

I hope Deputies O'Connor and Conor Lenihan are not at the PLP meeting because that is the parliamentary Labour Party meeting.

I am only slightly premature.

I said yesterday I did not believe the figure of 13,000 or 15,500 was under discussion. It is not just a question of a review, but a review of active labour market programmes. It is useful in that regard. I accept the point about the benefit of community employment in areas where it is useful. It is not always popular to say that all community employment schemes are not useful. However, a large proportion of them are and that means we must continue to keep a large number of people on them. I will continue to argue that point. It will come up in the Estimates. It is important as part of the review that we do not portray community employment as a long-term job for people, while we continue to bring in an inordinate number of people to do jobs in the hotel, catering, security and labour industries. That is incorrect and it is of concern to the trade union movement, to me and to everyone else.