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Dáil
‹ Leaders' Questions.

Crime Statistics and Garda Resources

Summary

Kenny and Rabbitte challenge the Government over sharp increases in recorded crime, falling detection rates, Garda funding and the closure of Shanganagh. The Taoiseach acknowledges concerns about violent and sexual offences, defends Garda and prison investment and the PULSE system, and says the Government will pursue further reforms.

The programme for Government, in its section dealing with justice, reads: "We stand for a society where all people can feel safe in their communities, businesses and homes." The publication of statistics relevant to crime in this country is a shocking indictment of the society we have become and the inability of Government to cope with the situation. Headline crime, which includes homicide, assault, sexual offences, arson, drugs, larcenies, burglaries, robbery and fraud, has increased by 18%, with a range of other increases in murder, armed robbery, burglaries and larcenies.

I listened to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform this morning on a national radio programme, who seemed to be more like a parent in despair than a Minister for Justice. He admitted in respect of an unprovoked assault on a member of his family that he did not report this crime to the Garda because it would be a waste of Garda time, despite the fact that there was no description available. Does this mean that the 2,000 extra gardaí promised by the Government in its programme will not now be employed to deal with crime? Does it mean that the figures published are just the tip of the iceberg when the Minister himself says on national radio that a crime in respect of a member of his family was not reported to the Garda because it would be a waste of Garda time?

I would like the Taoiseach to respond to the central statement of the programme for Government that people should be safe in their houses, businesses and communities. I remind him that the Fianna Fáil programme for this year reads: "We will break up the gangs involved in serious crime, especially robberies and drug trafficking, and reduce random and gratuitous violence caused by excessive alcohol." I would like to see how that squares up from the Government's perspective in view of the statistics published this morning.

Comment on this

The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform yesterday published the Garda Síochána's annual report for last year, the contents of which confirm the preliminary statistics published by the Minister in July. The headline crime figure has increased which, as the Minister already said, is both worrying and disappointing. The position in regard to headline offences is of particular concern because it indicates that the number of headline offences recorded last year increased over the previous year, which is disappointing. The additional numbers of gardaí recruited in recent years are now fully in place. Some 11,800 is the current figure. A range of legislative measures have been introduced, including a number of specialist units to deal with various levels of criminality and public disorder. There is public order legislation and a review of the licensing Acts. We must continue to deal with these issues. I do not think it is a question of legislation, even though there is more legislation planned, because most of the legislation is already in place.

There are issues concerning drugs offences. The increases reflect the successful results of operations carried out by the Garda. People will be aware of the success rate against criminality and drugs gangs, which must continue in other areas. The figures relating to crime of a sexual nature are certainly worrying. I know the Minister is doing all he can in this regard. The courts have handed down very tough sentences and are dedicated to doing so.

The Government is determined to continue to take the necessary measures to deal with criminal behaviour. The introduction of the PULSE system means we are getting the proper facts in regard to recording crime rates. In the past there was the argument that crime was not reported, but we are now getting a much more accurate assessment of the level of crime. As worrying as that may be, it is better to be aware of the facts. The Garda crime detection record continues to be excellent. It has an impressive detection rate by international standards, which includes 87% of homicide cases, 75% of assault cases and 72% of cases of sexual offences. We must continue this success in all areas.

I am not trying to paint a picture other than one of concern. We must deal with the issues as they are, put in the effort and continue to use the enormous resources already in place.

Comment on this

The problem is that the word of the Government cannot be believed. Murders are up by 33%, sexual offences by 81%, assaults by 83%, drug offences by 33%, armed robberies by 14%, burglaries by 9% and larceny is up to 11,454 cases.

Comment on this
Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Has the Deputy a question?

Comment on this

Wait for it.

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The figures for violent assaults in Dublin are now five times higher than three years ago and detection rates are falling. Is it true that the Book of Estimates shows a zero increase in the Garda budget for next year, which equates with zero tolerance a few years ago? How does the Government, particularly the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, intend to deal with this situation when there is no increase in the Garda budget and there will not be 2,000 extra gardaí as promised, when detection rates are falling and violent crime is five times higher than three years ago? The Government cannot be believed on crime. How does the Taoiseach intend in the programme for Government to deal with this?

Comment on this
Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Deputy Kenny, your minute is concluded.

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The Government says it will complete the programme of modernising prisons and providing extra places. How does that tally with the closure of Shanganagh? The Government cannot be believed on the central issue of the protection of people in our society.

Comment on this

Everything is zero but crime.

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The Deputy will know that when extra gardaí are taken on, as almost 2,000 have been taken on in recent years, they have to be paid for. They are in the base figure and the enormous increases given to the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform have allowed those gardaí to pass fully through Templemore. We have a higher number of gardaí than ever at 11,800.

An enormous amount of money has been put into the prison capital programme over the past five years and the programme has been completed, including the work at Cloverhill Prison, Mountjoy Prison and women's prison and Portlaoise Prison. That has continued. Shanganagh was opened in 1969 as an open detention centre for males between 16 and 21 years of age. I recognise the good work of the staff there over the years. However, it has become increasingly difficult to identify young male offenders suitable for this type of open prison.

Comment on this

That is not so. Seven were identified.

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Deputy Gilmore, this is leaders' questions and Deputy Kenny is the only Member entitled to ask a question.

Comment on this

The average occupancy was 30 inmates last year and that has fallen further this year.

Comment on this

Because the Government took them out of it.

Comment on this

The annual cost of keeping an offender at Shanganagh last year was €127,000, which is higher than the annual cost anywhere else. Bearing in mind the full implementation of the Children Act, 2001, 16 and 17 year old inmates must be completely segregated in the prison system. The proceeds of the sale of that unit will go back into the prison system for other renewals.

The complete figures show that there are problems in some areas. We will work on the legislative base and try to improve on this issue in coming years. That is what was stated in the programme for Government and it will be continued.

Comment on this

We are talking about the crime report for 2001. Has the Taoiseach forgotten the background of zero tolerance that brought him to office in 1997? This is the legacy of the Minister for zero tolerance. Has the Taoiseach forgotten the statement by the former Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy O'Donoghue, when he came to office, to the effect that he would be judged at the end of his term by "whether people felt safer on the streets and in their homes". Deputy Kenny has rhymed off the figures that have finally been released: an 83% increase in sexual assaults; an 81% increase in assaults; an 18% increase in headline crime; a 33% increase in murders; and a 14% increase in armed robbery. Is this the legacy of the Minister for zero tolerance? Are these the figures that he suppressed earlier this year when he admitted to my colleague, Deputy Howlin, on "Morning Ireland" that he had the preliminary figures? He then sought to suppress them coming up to the general election.

Comment on this

Like everything else.

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Is it not very odd that the new Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, who has an opinion on everything-—

Comment on this

Like the Deputy, radio Rabbitte.

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—and spends a lot of his time re-branding the Progressive Democrats, is acting as an estate agent for Shanganagh? He thinks it is a risible matter that we have this level of crime on our streets, that old people do not feel safe in their homes and people are besieged in their homes in some disadvantaged communities. The former Minister thinks he can share in the risibility with the new Minister. The former Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy O'Donoghue, is a disgrace. He completely neglected his portfolio.

Comment on this
Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

The Deputy's two minutes are up.

Comment on this

He drove from Cahirciveen twice a week and signed whatever was put on the desk before him. He took no initiatives and this is his disgraceful legacy.

Comment on this

I am not sure if the Deputy asked me a question.

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Would the Taoiseach like him to restate it?

Comment on this

I will restate what I previously said. These figures were published in preliminary form as soon as they were available, to correct Deputy Rabbitte.

Comment on this

That is untrue.

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The Government has endeavoured to resource the Garda Síochána to the maximum extent and has done an enormous job in extending the number of prison places, updating prisons, putting extra judges, facilities and staff into the courts and providing a range of services from the Garda—

Comment on this

They have all failed.

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They have not failed. Crime is up but there have been numerous dedicated systems brought in by the Garda in disadvantaged communities to deal with criminality in one form or other. This is making a major impact in many areas. Much crime in the figures is related to closing time for discos and licensed premises. That is what the figures show.

Comment on this

Change the laws.

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The number of assaults which cause harm has increased markedly and that is worrying. That has climbed over the past few years as have the figures for sexual offences, another major issue. The detection rate has improved massively and is well ahead of other jurisdictions. There are issues to deal with and they are set out in the programme for Government and the legislative programme. I have no doubt that the current Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform will have an impact also.

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Is it not time the Taoiseach admitted that the zero tolerance claim was a complete sham? Will he admit that it is the first responsibility of Government that citizens feel safe in society? That manifestly is not the case. Why is the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform deliberately running down Shanganagh?

Comment on this

I am closing it.

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Why is he deliberately running it down with a view to selling it when there is a need for rehabilitation in this kind of unit? Meanwhile, a new prison for youths is being built at Mountjoy when any expert in the area could tell us that there is a necessity for rehabilitation. The Minister did not get one penny. He came to the House last night and had great fun at the expense of the McBrearty's and others. The Minister engaged in L & H debating tactics. He did not get one penny in the Book of Estimates.

Comment on this
Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

The Deputy's minute is concluded.

Comment on this

Is it not the case that the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform did not get one penny for the 2,000 additional gardaí?

Comment on this
Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

The Deputy has gone over his allotted time.

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What does the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform make of the report released about the fabrication of crime statistics in Waterford? The Garda said it could not use the PULSE system but it had no intention to mislead. There is no evidence that the Government understands the problems as Ministers pass through the streets in their darkened Mercedes.

Comment on this

The Government has spent €80 million on the PULSE system and it is working extremely effectively.

Comment on this

It does not work.

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The Labour Party has one leader, let him speak.

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Fianna Fáil has two leaders and a couple of contenders.

Comment on this

Progressive Democrats first.

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The PULSE system notes all the crimes that are recorded. That is a good thing as we know what we have to deal with. In the past we did not have recorded crime figures. There are now 20 inmates and 47 prison officers at Shanganagh.

Comment on this
Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Deputy Rabbitte, the Taoiseach is entitled to exactly the same courtesy as you were afforded by the House. He must be allowed to speak without interruption.

Comment on this

The Taoiseach deliberately contrived to misrepresent the situation at Shanganagh.

Comment on this

It clearly makes sense to move the prison from Shanganagh and reinvest the money in the Prisons Service. The small number of inmates at Shanganagh can be accommodated within the prison system without difficulty.

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What about the inmates who should be at Shanganagh?

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The Minister has clearly set out the systems and the supports he wants to give in the reform of the Garda. I have every confidence that his plans will be successful. At different times this House is very fast to criticise the Garda in its dealing with crime while permanently finding time to criticise the force for the way it deals with it. The Garda should be allowed to deal with it.

Comment on this

That is an old chestnut.

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