Crime and Garda visibility
Kenny and Rabbitte challenge the Government over rising violent crime and the lack of visible Garda enforcement, questioning whether existing and promised measures are effective. The Taoiseach acknowledges the increase but cites higher Garda numbers and funding, planned public-order and liquor legislation, and further enforcement and reform measures.
In recent weeks this country has seen an unprecedented rise in the incidence of unpremeditated violence on our streets. Does the Taoiseach not accept that the policy pursued by this Government and the previous Government of zero tolerance lies in a complete and utter shambles? Does he accept that the solemn promise made in the programme for Government of a society where all people can feel safe in their homes, businesses and communities is a total sham?
In 2002, the rise in serious crime was more than 22%. There were 1,886 more assaults than in 2001, 16 assaults and nine sexual offences every day in 2002 and 34,000 incidents of public drunkenness. On top of that, there was a solemn commitment by the Taoiseach and the Government to recruit 2,000 extra gardaí, but we got a statement from the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform that this will not happen. Does the Taoiseach accept that, as the head of Government, he is presiding over an absolutely disastrous State in terms of the implementation of law and order and of forming a society where people can feel safe in their communities, businesses and homes? Arising from those statistics, will he tell the House and the country what he proposes to do about this in the interests of having a normal society?
Comment on this
The Government has acknowledged that the increase in crime in the past few years is unacceptable and very disappointing. We have also pointed out that we will continue to put in additional resources in terms of manpower, pri son places, and changes to the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act and criminal justice legislation as well as other measures. Only yesterday the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform spelled out in particular six measures, some legislative, which he intends to introduce as soon as possible, relating to drink and licensed premises.
I am sure the Deputy will appreciate that the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Bill and the other initiatives being brought forward are useful. These include a mandatory age card for a specific age cohort if they wish to buy and consume alcohol in a licensed premises. Plain clothes gardaí will have the right to be on licensed premises to stop under age drinking, there will be new and heavier penalties for drunkenness in licensed premises, gardaí will have the power to seek the closure of premises, there will be a prohibition on those under 18 years of age remaining in licensed premises, closed circuit television will be extended and there will be other initiatives to empower the gardaí to take the necessary measures.
We allocated huge resources in the budget to allow gardaí to deal with the situation. It is a fact that the figures have gone up in the past few years, mainly through drink related crime and public order elements, but there was a fall of almost a quarter for a number of years prior to that. The solution is to deal with the two areas where there are problems – drink and the intoxicating liquor legislation coupled with public order and the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Bill. That is what we will do to return to the previous position and address the figures that are higher than we would like.
Comment on this
The stark failure of this Government is its inability to enforce current regulations, never mind new ones. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform did not take the opportunity with the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Bill to mention any of the six proposals he now has. How is it proposed to act on those proposals when the gardaí say that any cutbacks in overtime will have dire consequences for visibility on the streets? The single biggest issue for all communities is the presence of gardaí on the streets. They must be visible because it is not only a source of comfort, it is a source of protection and a deterrent to those who would break the law.
How does the Taoiseach propose to deal with this? Will the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform get the extra resources from the Minister for Finance to ensure Garda visibility on the streets and the implementation of the proposals on drink and public order? Why has the Government failed to introduce any initiative, even in respect of parents, when 34,000 incidents of public drunkenness took place last year, when a young man taking money from an ATM had his throat slit and when people on the streets are kicked senseless in unprovoked acts of extreme violence? The Taoiseach and the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform are presiding over this. The time for talking is over, we must now have action.
Comment on this
I am glad to see Deputy Kenny is interested in this issue. Unfortunately, his party was the only one not to bother giving a submission to the Commission on Intoxicating Liquor despite the reminders that it received.
Comment on this
The Taoiseach is not in charge.
Comment on this
There is only one leader of Fine Gael, Deputy Kenny, and this is Leaders' Questions. He is the only Deputy who is entitled to ask a supplementary on this question.
Comment on this
There are currently 12,200 gardaí and at every turn in recent years we have given priority to providing additional powers to the gardaí. After every report on criminal justice, we have introduced legislation to the House to ensure we can deal with the situation.
Comment on this
The Taoiseach is not out on the streets.
Comment on this
As the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform and I have said, there are difficulties in the areas related to intoxicating liquor legislation and, with the publication of the recent report, we set about examining what we must do to legislate for it. The Minister has issued a comprehensive report setting out what he intends to do in this area.
Comment on this
We are bringing in short-term measures to deal with these problems and the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Bill is already before the House. The Government has stated that the scourge of alcohol-fuelled violence and criminality makes nobody proud. We are trying to deal with it and we must take the necessary legislative and enforcement measures. I am not responsible for the enforcement measures.
Comment on this
I can supply the resources to the gardaí and provide the legislative powers. We will do our best to ensure record numbers of gardaí deal with this matter.
Comment on this
The citizens of the State will be appalled to hear the Taoiseach saying that he has no responsibility for enforcement. Is what happened at the weekend not every parent's nightmare – the horrific, life threatening assault of a young man for no apparent reason? There is nothing new about this. This is the present Minister reaping the whirlwind of six years of zero tolerance. Does the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform recall his predecessor saying that he would be judged by whether people considered the streets to be safer and feeling secure in their homes at the end of his term of office? This is the legacy – 300 serious offences per year and nine vicious assaults in the past nine months that have maimed young people.
I do not take cheap shots at the present Minister. I may not agree with him but I have high regard for his ability. He runs the risk, however, of ridicule if he does not stop making announcements and do something to enforce the law. How come there was no garda within easy distance on Grafton Street on the night? Can the Minister give the Taoiseach a note to tell him how many gardaí patrol the city centre area at weekends? Why is there no visible Garda presence? Why are there no community policemen on the beat? Why is that no longer regarded as a deterrent?
Garda reform is as desperately needed as are the 2,000 gardaí the Government did not deliver. That people cannot go to bed at night during the weekend for fear that their teenagers will be the subject of a vicious and unprovoked assault is a matter for which the Taoiseach must be responsible. It is not good enough to say to Deputy Kenny that the Taoiseach has no responsibility for enforcement. The Taoiseach is the leader of the Government and the situation is getting worse every year. The figures for 2000 were a disaster, those for 2001, which the Government delayed until after the general election, were worse and preliminary figures for 2002 are worse again. That is the trend. The Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources should realise this is not a laughing matter.
Comment on this
I have already acknowledged several times in the House, as has the Minister, that between 1997 and 2000 there was a drop of 27% and in the past two years, 2001 and 2002, there has been a large increase.
Comment on this
If I outline Garda facts, they say it is rubbish. Could Opposition Members just listen? I only have a minute, can they not shut up for a minute?
Comment on this
He should watch the back benches.
Comment on this
Deputies cannot frustrate any Member of the House from making his or her contribution. Deputy Rabbitte was entitled to ask a question, he submitted his question to the Taoiseach and the Taoiseach is entitled to the same courtesy as any other Member in replying. The Chair will insist upon that.
Comment on this
As I have stated, we have acknowledged that the figures for 2002 are high, as were the figures for 2001. I have been asked what we are doing about this. We have devoted and will continue to devote major resources to ensure that where crimes are committed, criminal law is adequate to deal with them. We have put more than 1,000 extra gardaí on the streets, the highest number ever. Garda numbers are up and the budget has increased by 60%. We have put legislation in place in all the key areas where there are difficulties and we will continue to do that. We have prioritised recruitment and training.
Deputy Rabbitte rightly points out that crime levels are at their highest in the city centre. The Minister has provided for specialist units, both under cover and plain clothes, to deal with drugs, drink and public order issues. It is perhaps not solving the problems but the Minister is endeavouring to deal with them.
With regard to enforcement, the Minister has spelt out what he is doing in the area of legislation and in terms of resources. He has addressed with the Garda what needs to be done on enforcement. It is not a question that the Government has ignored or washed its hands in respect of any of these initiatives. In a busy legislative period in the area of liquor licensing and public order, we hope to strengthen those aspects of the law the Garda and the courts have indicated to be deficient. We will continue to provide the necessary resources in the Estimates.
We should not ignore the fact that the Garda budget has increased by 60%, from €600 million only a few years ago to almost €1 billion today. These are not small figures. To have more than 12,000 gardaí in a small country is proportionately far higher in terms of size of population than in other areas.
Comment on this
On the question of reform, I agree with Deputy Rabbitte's views on Garda supervision. The Minister has made that a priority. He has taken initiatives on the question of manning levels and reforming the system. We have introduced legislative controls, but more needs to be done. The Minister has outlined his proposals in this regard.
Comment on this
The Taoiseach appears not to accept that he has been in office for six years. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform has been in office with him for approximately half of that period. Is the Taoiseach aware that by comparison with 2000, crime figures for 2002 indicate that serious assaults have increased by 187%, sexual offences by 113%, drug offences by 62%, homicides by 58% and headline offences by 44%? There have already been six gangland killings this year.
However, I do no want to divert from the question of safety on the streets. After six years in office, will the Taoiseach indicate when the law will be enforced? We do not need further legislation for that. When will there be a visible Garda presence on the streets?
The Minister keeps promising new legislation. When will it be introduced to the House? The Minister inherited a milk and water Criminal Justice (Public Order) Bill from his predecessor. It is a harmless measure and Second Stage was debated at the outset of his period in office.
Comment on this
I did not say that. It is a milk and water measure. If the Minister is to base his legislative career on tackling public order offences on the strength of this measure, which he inherited from his predecessor, he may as well return to the drawing board now.
Comment on this
The Minister is not basing his legislative proposals in this area solely on the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Bill. He has consulted the Garda Síochána and last night he spelt out the legislative measure he intends to take.
Comment on this
The Minster has also allocated increased resources to other measures, such as closed circuit television. We can argue over the statistics all day. Crime levels are higher, but crime per head of the population is probably unchanged. Nevertheless, it is still too high and we must take the necessary measure to deal with it. In this regard I agree with Deputy Rabbitte on the need for greater enforcement. A tougher public order Bill is required, as are tougher laws dealing with intoxicating liquor and liquor licensing.
Comment on this
The Government has provided for substantial numbers of extra gardaí. Increased resources for overtime have been provided every year. We have also worked hard with the Garda Síochána to provide for reform and to ensure there is greater Garda visibility. If people see more gardaí on the streets they have a greater sense of confidence.