Possible Reintroduction of Third-Level Fees
Rabbitte pressed the Taoiseach on whether the Government planned to reintroduce third-level fees. The Taoiseach said a review was examining ways to improve access for people on very low incomes, but denied that fees were being considered for moderate- or high-income families.
The Taoiseach does not appreciate that he is almost permanently in "comical Ali" mode. There is no sense or reason to what he said. Deputy Kenny raised a number of issues from a single television debate in which the Taoiseach participated. It was the only television debate in which he participated during the election campaign and, for some extraordinary reason, the only one in his six years as Taoiseach. The doorstep interview, the 35 second soundbite, with which the media are so cravenly satisfied is the Taoiseach's standard.
Deputy Kenny raised the deception in the promises advanced by the Taoiseach in that interview. I wish to ask the Taoiseach about a deception that was not promised. I do not recall the Taoiseach, Deputy Noel Dempsey or Fianna Fáil campaigning to reintroduce third level fees. Will the Taoiseach, for the sake of parents whose children will sit examinations in two weeks, lift this uncertainty once and for all? What is the position? The Government is divided. On 16 April, the Tánaiste confirmed in the House that her party opposes the reintroduction of third level fees. She has tatty posters in the third level institutions asserting as much. I read this morning that most of the lads on the backbenches are engaged in what Fianna Fáil is doing these days, bringing both sides of the road with them. Half of them are for it and half of them are against it.
What is the position on third level fees? Young people are about to take their leaving certificate examinations and their parents do not know whether they will have to come up with serious money, after paying tax, to give their children an opportunity to enjoy third level education in an era when our society and economy demand that people have such education. Will the Taoiseach state, at least in respect of the next academic year, the Government's position? As somebody said at our annual conference last weekend: "If there was a kite flying championship in the Olympics, Deputy Noel Dempsey would be the undisputed champion".
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Deputy Kenny would not want to remember much else about that period. I probably have not taken part in as many debates as Deputy Rabbitte. He spends most of his time sitting in a studio. I have more to do.
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I have done a huge number of interviews in the past year. It is good to move about and see what is happening but now Deputy Rabbitte has decided in his new strategy to neglect ordinary working class people and go for the upper and middle classes. The question asked by the Deputy is consistent with that. The Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Dempsey, has said there is a problem with access to third level for working people and people in the low socio-economic groups. Deputy Rabbitte is saying we should not look at this area.
The Minister has stated that the issue of access has been around for a long time. Nobody is talking about taking away the rights of people on small or moderate incomes or even what would be considered high incomes. However, as the Minister said, there are inconsistencies in a situation where people who have enormous incomes and salaries, earned through shares and other means, do not—
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Would Deputies please listen? They should not get benefits from education grants. The review being carried out is examining if the Minister can do something to increase the already high level of participation in third level education and to see if he can give opportunities to those communities where participation in third level is only 5% or less.
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He has highlighted in his review and in numerous public statements that there are some sections of Irish life where more than 90% of people have access to third level education.
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There are other areas, many represented by me and Deputy Rabbitte – I remind him he also represents some of them – where fewer than 5% of people have access so surely this House should be urging Deputy Noel Dempsey—
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—to try and finish a review to try to improve the lot of the disadvantaged in Irish society. That is what the Minister is doing and he will be finished in a few weeks.
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Does his Government intend to reintroduce fees for third level education? That is the question. Any of us can give a half-baked sociological treatise. If he wants to put money into primary and pre-school education let him do that. If he wants to raise money from the high rollers whose tax exile he has facilitated he can do that.
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Let us stick to the question. What parents want to know is whether Deputy Noel Dempsey, with the approval of this Cabinet, is going to reintroduce third level fees. That is the issue. It is a simple question. I would like to say to the Taoiseach that I have never been in a radio or television studio where there is not a second chair and I look forward to the day he agrees to occupy one of them.
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The answer to the question is that there is a review taking place within the Department of Education and Science to see if we can improve the access for people who are on very small incomes, or welfare, who have no access to education, and to see if there are people at the top cycle who could help in that review and contribute to improving the access and other matters as well. It is not looking at people on moderate or good incomes.
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Nobody is talking about bringing in fees for people on moderate or even on what most people would regard as high incomes. It does not make much sense. There are people who have incomes in excess of several hundred thousand euro who get free education and there are others who live on welfare who cannot get access to education.