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Dáil
‹ Leaders' Questions.

Stem cell research and Treacy’s mandate

Summary

Kenny challenged the Government’s handling of the EU research programme, asking whether Minister of State Treacy acted with the Taoiseach’s knowledge and whether the Dáil was bypassed. The Taoiseach confirmed Treacy had Government authority and said Ireland opposed starting embryonic research without safeguards, while arguing the programme had already been agreed.

It is now obvious we are watching the disintegration of the Government. In recent months, two senior Ministers, the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Cullen and the Minister for Arts, Sports and Tourism, Deputy O'Donoghue, openly revolted on the smoking ban regulations. During the Laffoy debacle, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy McDowell, directly contradicted the Taoiseach on the Government's handling of the core deal. Two weeks ago, the Minister for Defence, Deputy Michael Smith, breached Cabinet collective responsibility on three separate occasions and, yesterday evening, 40 backbenchers, led by a Minister of State, openly revolted against the Government's proposals in the Estimates. It is becoming increasingly clear that the Taoiseach is leading a rabble. It is no wonder the Tanáiste wants to jump ship before things get much worse.

Last night, we heard two versions – the Taoiseach's comments at the Fianna Fáil Parliamentary Party meeting and the views expressed by the Tánaiste – of how Ireland came to support a decision, at European Union level, to provide €1.1 billion of public funds for research on embryonic stem cells. Is the Taoiseach prepared to tell the House the truth about this matter? Was the Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture and Food, Deputy Treacy, acting on behalf of the Government when, as Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, he supported this research programme 18 months ago? Did the Taoiseach and the Tanáiste have personal knowledge of the programme before the Minister of State pledged support for it?

The Taoiseach bypassed the primacy of this House on this controversial and complex matter. Why did he not consider it necessary to have it debated in the House, given that yesterday, the Cabinet expressed regret at the widespread confusion that exists on the issue?

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I am not sure what Deputy Kenny is asking.

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The Taoiseach does not want to answer anyway.

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

The Taoiseach, without interruption, please.

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The Deputy, in the time available to him, referred, among other things, to the smoking ban, community employment schemes, the Fianna Fáil Parliamentary Party and the human genome programme.

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Jim O'Keeffe Mr. J. O'Keeffe Fine Gael

If the Taoiseach does not know what question was asked, he cannot answer.

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That is because the Taoiseach is all over the place.

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Please allow the Taoiseach to continue without interruption. Deputy Allen is not the leader of his party.

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A Cheann Chomhairle, I understand that Standing Orders permit Deputy Kenny to ask only one question.

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Yes.

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I will deal with the last question he raised.

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In that case, if the Taoiseach wants to be smart—

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Deputy Kenny, allow the Taoiseach to continue. The Deputy will have an opportunity to put a supplementary question later.

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I asked three questions of the Taoiseach.

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

The Deputy is only entitled to raise one topic.

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I will deal with the final topic the Deputy raised.

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Perhaps the Taoiseach might address the truth. I asked if the Minister of State, Deputy Treacy, knew he was acting on Ireland's behalf when he made the decision to which I referred?

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I will reply to that question. Deputy Kenny made reference to four issues, which he is not allowed to do under Standing Orders.

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I am asking questions on one issue.

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Please allow the Taoiseach to continue without interruption.

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There are many issues with which we need to deal.

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The European Sixth Framework Directive was put and agreed by the European Commission in December 2001 and again in summer 2002. It was, at that stage, a matter of agreeing the €16 billion fund for research in various areas, including funding of €1.1 billion on human genome research, the issue under discussion today at European Council level. The Minister of State, Deputy Treacy, acted with the total knowledge and support of the Government and various Departments, including my Department, the Department of Foreign Affairs and the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, at which he was at that time a Minister of State. The matter was fully dealt with.

The issue under discussion in Europe today – we should not lose sight of this – is not about funding that has already been agreed, but about whether proper guidelines, safeguards and procedures will be put in place to deal with this matter when the moratorium ends. That is the decision before the European Commission today.

Deputy Kenny asked about the current position. There was no disagreement on the matter. At that stage, only Italy expressed a reservation while all other countries, including Ireland, agreed to the programme. The issue is concerned with research that will take place outside Ireland and we had no reason whatsoever to oppose the programme at that stage.

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The Taoiseach does not seem to have heard my question. Did the Minister of State, Deputy Treacy, act on behalf of the Government?

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Yes.

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Did the Taoiseach and the Tanáiste have personal knowledge—

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Yes.

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Why, then, did the Taoiseach bypass the primacy of the Dáil on this complex matter?

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It was not a matter for the Dáil.

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Paul Connaughton Mr. Connaughton Fine Gael

It was.

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Please allow Deputy Kenny to ask a question.

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The Taoiseach is interrupting.

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The Cabinet said yesterday that it regretted the widespread confusion caused. The Taoiseach has bypassed the primacy of this House. Let me finish with this question to the Taoiseach. The Tánaiste travels to Brussels today to speak and vote for Ireland. Will she reflect before that vote on the unanimous conclusion of the all-party Oireachtas Joint Committee on Enterprise and Small Business that Ireland should not support the spending of public funds on embryonic research? Does the Fianna Fáil Party support the spending of public funds on embryonic stem cell research? That has nothing to do with Italy or the genome project. It has to do with internal politics and the spending of public money from taxpayers, to be ratified by the Taoiseach's Government without bringing it to the floor of this House.

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I have already answered two of Deputy Kenny's questions. The third was on the framework programme. The Common Position on the sixth framework programme, which is known as FP6, was agreed at the Research Council in December 2001. It was formally adopted by the Employment and Social Policy Council on 26 June 2002, and the following co-decision procedure, which is Article 166(1), was agreed with the European Parliament. That was done with the knowledge of the various Departments. The funding programme was broad. Rather than a specific programme about stem cell research, it was about human genomics, and that was the programme put before the Council. It was not in the normal course of events. It was not about funding or research in this country, and the framework programme would not normally be put before this House. That answers the Deputy's question.

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So he did not know what he was voting for.

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The details of the programme were not known at that time. It was a broad programme on human genomics. It was €1.1 billion of €16 billion for that general programme. The Minister's decision today will be consistent with her decision throughout, namely, that this country does not believe that research should start. The issue today is not about whether resources will be spent, since that decision has already been made.

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No member of the Fianna Fáil Party supported it.

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Today's decision is as follows. When the money was passed, as I have just outlined, Ireland, Germany, Italy, Austria, Portugal and Luxembourg stated that the research should not start and that there should be a moratorium until proper European Commission guidelines, safeguards and procedures had been drawn up. The European Commission asked for 18 months, a period which will soon expire. The decision today is whether the research can go ahead without those guidelines. Our position is that research should not go ahead in this country. We also believe that it should not go ahead anywhere until those guidelines and procedures are in place. That is the issue.

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

I call Deputy Rabbitte.

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It mattered at the meeting last night.

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

I am sorry. Deputy Seán Ryan should allow his leader to submit his question.

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What happened at the meeting?

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Deputy Seán Ryan is not the leader of the Labour Party.

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