Last night I was invited to a meeting of parents who organise a wide range of clubs and activities for children and youths in their communities, from playschools and Irish dancing to services for disabled youth. These people are facing a massive crisis which is threatening the very existence of this huge community network that provides vital facilities for youth in the area, the only facilities which many can access, that is, the imminent closure of Hartstown community centre, the base of those activities. This arose because of the cuts of thousands of places on the community employment scheme.

Is the Taoiseach aware that this crisis is replicated all over the State, from Cork to Cavan and from Sligo to Dublin? Will he allow the extreme right-wing ideology of the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Harney, to dictate that this scheme, which has become a crucial pillar of support in communities of working people, be wound down? Does he understand that what started out years ago as a way of dealing with long-term unemployment is now part of the social fabric of communities and a basic support for community services that would not otherwise be there? To wind down the scheme would be to rip out part of the social fabric, inadequate as it is in some cases. I put it to the Taoiseach that he knows this well because his normally silent backbenchers have been attempting to roar about it. Tomorrow morning the Labour Party will provide them with an occasion to prove whether they are a parade of tear-shedding crocodiles or are genuinely upset about this issue.

The gang of 40.

Will the Taoiseach direct that the numbers on community employment schemes be maintained at the levels necessary to at least continue the services that existed at the beginning of this year?

I am well aware of the benefits of all employment schemes, including the community employment scheme, the job initiative and the social economy schemes. The Government has decided to support the retention of 25,000 places this year, which is the same as the number of places on the scheme last year. In addition, we have mainstreamed several thousand of the positions in the education sector, including secretaries and caretakers. This adds to a high proportion of places on the scheme. The Deputy is correct in saying that when long-term unemployment was high – about 10.4%, if I remember correctly – there were 40,000 people on the schemes. Now, taking in those in the education sector, there are probably more than 30,000 places, although long-term unemployment is at 1.4%. The rate of unemployment was 17.4%, now it is 4.4% and declining.

This year €350 million is being put into the schemes in addition to the amount going into the mainstreamed positions. This means that a proportionally higher amount is going into the scheme than was the case previously. This contributes to the benefits pointed out by the Deputy. The schemes have become part of the communities in which they are based and are working successfully. While there have been difficulties in certain areas, FÁS has endeavoured to manage them and the Government continues to investigate these areas. As I said earlier in the year, there was a need to make sure we were making the best use of the schemes in many areas and that has been successful. We now have a baseline of 25,000 places and the secretaries and caretakers have moved into full-time employment in education. With much lower unemployment and only one tenth of the previous level of long-term unemployment, the number of places continues to approach the maximum of 40,000 – it is currently between 30,000 and 35,000. The Deputy can see the benefit of this.

I put it to the Taoiseach that the question of long-term unemployment should no longer be the criterion for continuing the community employment schemes, which now have complete validity and are necessary in communities where a whole series of critical services are built around them. In terms of costs, the cut of 5,000 places in community employment schemes which the Government has envisaged is equivalent to the amount of tax legally avoided by one tax exile, Mr. O'Brien, on the profit made on one business deal. It is not a huge amount to provide for. Will the Taoiseach come back to the figures he has just mentioned? Is he saying that the number of people on community employment schemes at the beginning of this year is to be maintained in full next year and, therefore, the reports and notification from FÁS advising community fora they are to cut CE jobs are entirely unnecessary?

I do not administer the scheme, but what I—

A good job.

—-said was that even in a more difficult economic climate, the combined participation levels in both community employment, in jobs initiatives and social economy programmes at the 2003 levels—

That is a completely different thing.

I would ask Deputy Joe Higgins to resume his seat.

—-with no further reduction in numbers is envisaged in 2004—

There will be an opportunity later this evening to raise this matter further.

—-as a recognition of the invaluable contribution—

Deputy Joe Higgins is out of order.

—-these programmes make to the local community.

I would ask Deputy Joe Higgins to resume his seat, please.

I am sorry, but will the Taoiseach—

I will ask the Taoiseach to conclude.

It is not different. The level of places in 2004 is being funded at the same level. The only thing different is at the educational end. I do not know the exact figures, but when unemployment was at its height, at 17.4%, and there was long-term unemployment of 10.4%, there were 40,000 people on this scheme. Now some 25,000 people are on the three schemes that make up this area plus what is in the mainstream area. Given that these are full-time jobs there is somewhere in the order of 30,000 to 35,000. While the Deputy might say it does not matter—

The Taoiseach is right.

Who are these people—

—the issue is that it does matter because when people are wanted for community employment schemes, in many parts of the country where difficulty is being experienced in this regard, they must be recruited from among the unemployed. It therefore has a direct bearing. When Deputy Joe Higgins maintains that in some areas people are needed for essential services, that is why the area of education has been mainstreamed, which is forgotten in this debate—

To give Deputy Fahey a job.

The Taoiseach is right. Deputy Fahey is wrong.

—which is a large cost factor and is additional to the social employment scheme. It is not possible to mainstream every particular position. The Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Fahey, put forward a suggestion earlier this year—

Last week.

—that we would look at the operation of the schemes to maximise the benefits of participation for organisations and communities and the Government has been looking at that particular area. Those discussions will continue. The Minister of State's efforts achieved a position where we are spending some €350 million directly on social employment this year. I am not sure what the figure is on the mainstream 5,000 or so positions in education.