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Dáil
‹ Leaders' Questions.

Control of the dormant accounts fund

Summary

Rabbitte challenged the Government’s plan to give ministers a role in allocating dormant-account funds, arguing this undermined the independent board established to distribute them. The Taoiseach defended ministerial responsibility and oversight while saying the money would support disadvantaged groups; they disputed the fund’s size and purpose. The remaining exchanges were procedural and personal as the House moved to the next question.

One of the recommendations in the DIRT report was that dormant accounts in financial institutions ought to be transferred to the Exchequer to be administered for socially beneficial purposes. This recommendation was taken on board by the Minister for Finance in the 2001 Act when he provided for the establishment of an independent board that would disburse this money in accordance with stated objectives to assist people who are socially, educationally and economically disadvantaged, including people with disabilities. The board was duly appointed and statutory provision was made to permit the Minister to direct and issue guidelines.

Notwithstanding that, after the Dáil closed for the Christmas recess, a couple of days before Christmas, the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, Deputy Ó Cuív, issued a statement saying that he would take over the administration of this fund of in excess of €100 million.

How can the Taoiseach justify the Minister intervening to use these moneys, which were not the State's moneys, as a further political slush fund in the way that the lottery funds have been disbursed down the years? When will this legislation promised by the Minister on 19 December be brought before the House? No doubt it will be in time for the local elections.

These were moneys taken over from the financial institutions from the funds of people with dormant accounts. They were meant to be used for socially beneficial reasons in disadvantaged communities. Now we find that having appointed the board, the Minister is not happy and will assert his right to disburse these moneys.

Comment on this

The heads of the legislation have been approved, but I am not sure when the Bill will be before the House. The plan for the dormant accounts board was published in early November and, as Deputy Rabbitte stated, it was to be used for those affected by economic and social disadvantage, educational disadvantage and persons with a disability. These were the three categories highlighted in that plan from last November. The plan was to create a framework within which the board would disburse the resources. If I recall correctly, the original figure was quite small and the figure that came forward in that plan was somewhere in the order of €30 million, just short of it or just over it. The plan was to provide for levels of disbursement particularly for ring-fenced areas. A number of categories were highlighted where there were already programmes for the disadvantaged. The board remains in place as an advisory board.

At the last Government meeting at Christmas time, we said we would review the arrangements to make sure the projects would be evaluated, that we would look at the additional resources, would continue to have the board advise and prioritise, that its recommendations would be considered by Government and that there would be a disbursement plan.

Comment on this
Jim O'Keeffe Mr. J. O'Keeffe Fine Gael

An election plan.

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In the context of the need to ensure appropriate capacity and to evaluate the applications——

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Can we have a translation of that please?

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——and to ensure that there is maximum transparency of disbursements, the Government's view was that the objectives of disbursements should remain unchanged, that we would make decisions on disbursements and that the Government would have an involvement in that.

One of the main reasons for that was that an applicant or organisation could apply under half a dozen different categories under half a dozen different Votes, if there was not any way of bringing them together. One would not be able to do that transparently.

The board will still evaluate the applications and it will still act in an advisory capacity. To do that requires legislation and the legislation will come before the House.

Comment on this

That is an entirely disingenuous reply by the Taoiseach. He took me through a description of the process. We know what it is; the question is why the Minister felt it necessary to abrogate his legislation and promise amending legislation so he can get his hands on the money.

It is blatantly disingenuous to imply that an applicant might rip-off the system by applying under six different headings and that the Cabinet will be able to sort this out. The fact of the matter is that is why the independent board was established. That is why the independent board was going to make decisions on what projects should or should not be assisted. It is a blatant political gimmick to get their hands on this money for political purposes.

Whatever one associates with the Minister, Deputy Ó Cuív, it is not transparency. I never understood any answer he gave me on any controversial issue. The most disgraceful and dishonest act of this Government was the commitment that the Taoiseach made in advance of the last general election that £2 billion would be transferred under the RAPID programme to areas of disadvantage and it did not last until the election was over. Some £2 billion was promised to disadvantaged communities and the Minister, Deputy Ó Cuív, pulled the plug on the entire lot after £5 million had been wasted in agreeing plans that the Taoiseach said would be funded. He is now going to use this as a fig leaf; a disbursement plan, this is a disbursement electoral gimmick and a disgraceful take-over for political purposes of moneys that were not the Government's in the first place.

Comment on this

I do not know if the legislation will even be through before summer, but the important thing about the dormant accounts fund——

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The money will be allocated anyway.

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The Taoiseach promised it would.

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——but the important decisions——

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The Minister, Deputy McCreevy should keep a straight face. I know he is laughing.

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The important issue is that the moneys be used for areas of disadvantage. If Deputy Rabbitte thinks that the dormant accounts money will resolve some of the major projects, like Ballymun where we are spending €250 million, then he has another think coming. The money in dormant accounts fund should be used to greatest effect in areas of need.

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The needs will be candidates in danger.

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Ministers are responsible to the House and to the Committee of Public Accounts for moneys that are spent, and it will be the same for this money. I do not see the difficulty of having the money with an independent advisory group that will work with the Minister. It is a small amount of money in the overall context——

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It is a hell of a lot more than was dispersed under RAPID.

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It is €30 million.

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It is €110 million.

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Allow the Taoiseach to conclude.

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It is less than €30 million annually.

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It is only €30 million because the Taoiseach says so.

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Deputy Rabbitte should allow the Taoiseach to conclude.

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It is small in terms of what is spent on the youth services facilities fund, CLÁR, RAPID and other schemes for social inclusion.

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This is not for rebuilding Ballymun.

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We are spending €250 million in Ballymun and the entire fund would not cover it. The advisory board is in place. I do not see why anyone would get excited about how the resources are allocated.

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

I call Deputy Joe Higgins.

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Will the Taoiseach accept the recommendations of the board?

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Deputy Seán Ryan is not the leader of Deputy Higgins' party.

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I would not want to be either.

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It is okay. We in the Socialist Party are very choosy about who we accept as members.

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The Deputy found that out.

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Allow Deputy Higgins to continue without interruption.

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I am much happier where I am now than where I was ten years ago.

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So are we.

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