The Government is set to proceed with the process for introducing electronic voting. I respect the fact that the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Cullen, tried to make contact from Brussels yesterday about the appointment of an independent panel. That was the level of consultation with the leaders of the Opposition parties about this matter. Is the Taoiseach happy with that level of consultation on a matter so fundamental to our democracy as a change in the voting system? Why were the Comptroller and Auditor General and the Ombudsman not appointed to the independent panel? Is it because they had expressed concern about this change to the system of voting? Why were they not appointed to the commission?

Can the Taoiseach verify whether he is prepared to expand the terms of reference of the independent panel? It seems that the panel is now being forced to examine this system only and verify if it is foolproof and can command trust. Can it also consider the different electronic system about which the Taoiseach spoke yesterday, which 400 million Indians used to vote? Why is the panel confined to one system only? Will the Taoiseach confirm that its terms of reference can be broadened to examine other electronic systems to achieve some measure of trust in a system that has now patently become a complete and utter shambles?

Is the Taoiseach prepared to expand the terms of reference? Why were the Comptroller and Auditor General and Ombudsman not appointed to the panel? Is it because they had made statements expressing concern about a process that has become completely politicised in the last few months?

Anyone would agree that the independent commission that we have asked to do this job is just that. Its members should be allowed to get on with their work unfettered by political comment and interference; there will certainly be none from me. I will not question the commission's integrity and we should not do so. The commission's composition includes a High Court judge and members of the Standards in Public Office Commission. The Government considered having the Comptroller and Auditor General as a member, and I would have liked to have had him on it, but he must arbitrate and report on departmental funding and expenditure aspects of the scheme. It seems that a person could not be involved in both positions. However, the Standards in Public Office Commission is involved. The terms of reference are broad enough. We have already decided on the system and there is no point in saying that we have not.

The Taoiseach means he has decided.

We have used the system since 1999. Deputy Allen did not seem to mind in 2002——

We did not even know.

——when we used it in the general election or the Nice referendum. One must remember that 400,000 people in this country have used the system.

Over recent weeks the Government has been asked to set up an independent commission, a request to which it has agreed. We said we would do so to verify the secrecy and accuracy of the system; we have agreed to establish that. To allay any possible fears that a ministerial order introducing electronic voting for local and European elections could be faulty, the Government has agreed to introduce legislation to cover that point, which I was asked in the House. In response to concerns raised in this House by people involved in the electoral process, we have undertaken to legislate the conditions under which data can been made available for the electronic voting system. There have been calls for a dual system, and I have answered those. I have been asked to outline the verification of these systems and the procurement process. We know that they need that Powervote system and that it is one of the best available, having been verified by several countries, including Germany and the Netherlands.

In local elections.

At every turn I have tried to deal with those issues. I repeat once again that this has been in the public domain for five years.

That does not make it right.

We have used the system in two elections, and it has been verified by international standards bodies in several countries. We have adhered to and tried to take into account all the valid points that have been made.

It is impossible to get an answer from the Taoiseach. He might like to refer to why he abandoned the process on Committee Stage of the Bill if he is as broad-minded as he claims. The Taoiseach says that he believes the terms of reference are broad enough. Is he prepared to allow for an expansion of the terms of reference so that this independent panel can consider other electronic voting systems to which he referred yesterday? Can he explain why the Ombudsman has not been appointed to the independent panel if the Comptroller and Auditor General cannot be appointed? The Taoiseach wanted him on it, and yet he is not there.

I want to be helpful. Voting is of tremendous political importance to all people and shades of opinion in this country, yet it is now a total shambles. For instance, we have the Referendum Commission, the boundary commission and this independent panel. Presidential elections are run by the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. The European and local elections are separate. This is all over the place. If the Taoiseach wishes to restore some modicum of respect and trust in the system, he should answer these questions. Is he prepared to allow the panel to examine other electronic systems? The Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Cullen, made his calls in desperation from Brussels yesterday.

You wanted Internet voting.

The Minister, Deputy Cullen, should allow Deputy Kenny to conclude without interruption.

Deputy Cullen is the director of elections and he gave out a €4.5 million contract to one of his henchmen.

Deputy Kenny's minute is concluded.

The best day in your life was the day you handed in your application form to the Fianna Fáil Party after leaving the Progressive Democrats.

Maybe if you had done the same, you would be sitting here too.

Deputy Kenny should address his remarks through the Chair.

The Government has lost this public relations battle. There is serious unrest about this.

Deputy Kenny's time is concluded.

I have a final question for the Taoiseach. If this independent panel——

Sorry, Deputy, we have gone well over the time.

A Cheann Comhairle, you are the person who is to receive this report and you know as much about software code sourcing as I do.

The Deputy should not involve the Chair in this debate.

If this panel expresses serious concerns, is the Taoiseach prepared to back away from the system?

I was asked a few weeks ago in the House to establish an independent commission. We have set up that independent commission with a High Court judge——

Without consulting anybody.

I have a minute to answer. I know the Deputy does not really want to know any of the answers but he should give me a minute.

It is not independent.

If a High Court judge, Justice Matthew P. Smith, is not independent——

The Taoiseach did not consult anybody.

Deputy Allen will have to leave the House if he continues to interrupt.

He is chairman of the Standards in Public Office Commission——

Only the party leader can ask supplementary questions.

Deputy Allen makes many throwaway remarks. This is a High Court judge who is chairman of the Standards in Public Office Commission. The man is beyond reproach so the Deputy should not make throwaway remarks. I was asked to set up a commission——

Why was there no consultation?

He is a Fianna Fáil hack.

Withdraw that.

We appointed independent people, such as the Clerk of the Seanad and the Clerk of the House——

Withdraw that remark.

The Deputy should withdraw that remark.

The Minister, Deputy Roche, must allow the Taoiseach to answer without interruption.

If people——

Withdraw that remark about the judge.

We have given the commission broad terms of reference. The commission, which will be independent in the performance of its functions, shall prepare a number of reports for presentation to the Ceann Comhairle on the secrecy and accuracy of the chosen electronic system and the counting system. They were the points of concern put forward by the Opposition parties. One cannot simply wake up the next morning and move off the ground on which one has argued one's case.

There was no consultation, just a phone call from Brussels.

Deputy Kenny spoke about looking at another system when an enormous amount of time, more than five years——

You have spent €40 million of the people's money.

No, the Government and the Department concerned have.

You rushed into it.

Over five years and over €40 million have been invested in the best international system we could find. It was verified by the only international bodies which are in the business of doing this, in Germany and the Netherlands. Let us not talk nonsense. I wish to ask one question in return.

Come over here if you want to ask a question.

You will get an answer.

Is somebody prepared to stand up and say that Fianna Fáil has manipulated this system or that it has changed the software to manipulate the vote?

You would if you got a chance.

Not yet.

If that is what Members are saying——

I am prepared to stand up——

Deputy Kenny should resume his seat and allow the Taoiseach to conclude.

It will be said outside the House.

Can I ask one question? I have been answering them for six weeks.

Allow the Taoiseach to continue. Deputy Kenny must resume his seat.

If people are prepared to say that, they should say it outside the House and let the reputable companies involved in this take the necessary action.

It will be said outside the House.

The Taoiseach asked the question.

I have another question.

There is no provision for a further supplementary. Deputy Kenny will have to find another way of asking his question. I call Deputy Rabbitte.

People outside the House are saying it.