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Dáil
‹ Leaders’ Questions.

Public service decentralisation

Summary

Rabbitte questions the cost, rationale and effects of relocating entire Departments, arguing the decision is politically motivated and risks fragmenting the Civil Service. The Taoiseach defends decentralisation as part of balanced regional development and says staff concerns and implementation will be addressed.

The answer to the Taoiseach's question is yes, if they thought they would get away with it. The Minister for Finance agreed at the weekend that the purpose of decentralisation, in the fashion in which he announced it, was to shore up the political fortunes of the two parties in Government by the time of the next election. Since that announcement, a number of unions, surveys and Departments have detailed the widespread resistance within the Civil Service and public service and the concerns about the adverse implications for governance that will be caused by the manner in which the decision was announced by the Minister.

The survey results show, for example, that out of 424 people in the Department of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources who replied, 29 offered to relocate. In the Department of Transport the number was 19 out of 460, in the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment 229 volunteered from the 1050 staff, in the Department of Agriculture and Food it was 167 out of the 655 personnel and in the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform there were 160 volunteers from the 980 staff. The Institute of Engineers, the Planning Institute, the Royal Institute of Architects of Ireland and the Society of Chartered Surveyors have expressed concerns and the Association of Higher Civil Servants said the plan was daft. The association produced a consultant's report which stated that almost 60,000 people are affected in the Minister's relocation plan.

Will the Taoiseach ignore the concerns expressed by people who have loyally served the State and who have pointed out that this is an unplanned and un-negotiated announcement? There was no consultation and it does not even conform to the Government's policy on the spatial strategy. Whereas this House is in agreement on the necessity for planned and balanced regional development, the manner in which the lock, stock and barrel relocation of Departments was announced is bad for the Government. It will lead to the politicisation of the Civil Service and the Minister said as much at the weekend.

Comment on this

This Government has fought the case for and implemented balanced regional development for the last number of years. In seeking Objective One status under the last round of Structural Funds we argued for the division of the country into the BMW and south-east regions and we carefully implemented that scheme to good effect. We presented the national spatial strategy and we have now presented our infrastructural programme, the national development plan, which is also being implemented. It will connect infrastructure throughout the country in many ways.

We announced a programme of decentralisation of over 10,000 public servants to 53 locations. We have set up a number of groups to deal with that. The Flynn group presented its first report to the Cabinet sub-committee last week and will present its implementation plan at the end of March. The Office of Public Works is actively engaged and we have received an enormous response from various companies and organisations throughout the country which wish to provide office accommodation and facilities for our public servants.

We understand that this plan must be negotiated, as the previous one was successfully negotiated, with our public and civil servants. We are also aware that there are thousands of civil and public servants who wish to move away from Dublin city for many reasons. We intend to make provision for that. We are also aware that, using modern communications technology, it is good for Dublin, the regions and the Civil Service. All these points will be negotiated.

I said yesterday in the House that under the Civil Service conciliation and arbitration scheme a sub-committee of the general council has been established to discuss all the issues relating to decentralisation. A meeting with the Congress of Trade Unions takes place next week.

We have said repeatedly that the programme will be entirely voluntary. There will be no compulsion or redundancies. I understand that many people have concerns they want addressed. It is the job of the Government and the various committees working on the matter to address these legitimate concerns. I was through this process in the first round which successfully moved public servants to Donegal, Sligo, Galway, Ennis, Limerick, Killarney, Cork, Tipperary and several other parts of the country. We will follow the same system of negotiations this time.

I assure Deputies that thousands of public servants, mainly at the middle and lower levels, want to move. People at higher levels, for family and other reasons, have some difficulties. We must discuss and deal with these matters. We are now in that process and discussions are under way. Hopefully, we will deal satisfactorily with it, as we did with the previous programme in the early 1990s.

Comment on this

I welcome the Taoiseach's remarks that for the first time he is prepared to make concessions to family considerations. How does that fit into the cost of this exercise where the Minister announced that lock, stock and barrel Departments were to be relocated to different parts of the country? This is not the planned relocation of self-contained agencies and sections of Departments to operate and implement policy. This purports to disintegrate the Civil Service and to avoid the normal interactions that take place in policy making every day. There is no question of cost and the Taoiseach still seems to be hanging on to the belief of the Minister of State, Deputy Parlon, that as soon as there is a stretch in the evenings, they will all move.

The most recent quango we had was the PIAB which the Tánaiste said she had to locate in Dublin because it would not be viable elsewhere.

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That contract was agreed beforehand.

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This is a political stroke that reminds me of the 1982 advertisement in the Kerry newspaper with a fresh faced young John O'Donoghue who said his policy was to implement the policy of decentralisation by moving the Department of Justice to Killarney. That was 1982.

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That is from Fergus Finlay's archive, I would say.

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

It is not appropriate to display literature during Question Time.

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I am glad to see that promise was kept as there are between 160 and 200 civil servants in Killarney in the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform. It is good to see that.

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John O'Donoghue Mr. O’Donoghue Fianna Fáil

I will appoint the Deputy as my election agent next time.

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If it takes 22 years to deliver the Minister will need one.

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All the planning, architecture, engineering associations and others who come to see me point out that they consider the greater Dublin area is effectively Leinster which they say has a population of 2 million people. A number of the centres of whole Departments are within that area. I see people in my own office who are travelling from Drogheda, Mullingar and Kildare. That is happening right across the public service and there is an enormous demand——

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If the Taoiseach moved against the builders that——

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

The Taoiseach without interruption.

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Deputies want my minute and their minute every morning. If they want to ask questions they should accept answers. They do not want to hear answers. The second point is that the implementation group has identified the people issues in the programme as being crucial to the success of the whole exercise. This is not the first time I said this. I have said all along that the Government endorses the programme and has put in place structures designed to ensure proper communication between all those involved in the process, particularly those directly involved, namely, the staff. We will do all we can to work with and facilitate the staff on this issue.

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What about compensation?

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