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Dáil
‹ Leaders’ Questions.

Garda station closures and decentralisation

Summary

Rabbitte sought details of proposed Garda station and legal aid centre closures, arguing that shutting local services conflicted with decentralisation. Walsh defended the decentralisation programme and cited high Garda numbers but did not identify which stations might close; the exchange became a dispute over the Chair’s handling of the question.

I will take the Minister's last statement as a threat.

Last week the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform announced the closure of a number of long-established Garda stations and a number of suburban legal aid centres. Will the Minister for Agriculture and Food tell the House exactly what Garda stations and legal aid centres are involved? We are entitled to know because the Minister for Agriculture and Food will know better than most how this is undermining rural communities in particular, especially given the closure of post offices that is already under way.

Can I have the Minister's attention? Will he say which suburban law centres will be shut down? The head office has been transferred to Cahirciveen although virtually no staff transferred with it. However, I have discovered that there is a second head office in Dublin and the chief executive is there. He must travel to Cahirciveen with the director of legal aid and other senior staff when they wish to get certain business done. Is this the model that will be applied to decentralisation? The Government is engaged in the forcible relocation of 10,000 civil servants. Many of them have put roots down in this city and their children are being educated here. If the Minister for Defence had not got diplomatically ill this morning, I would have asked him about his forcible transfer of staff to a premises in Roscrea that is apparently owned by a Fianna Fáil councillor.

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

The Deputy's two minutes have concluded.

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How can one reconcile the professed aspiration of decentralisation with the proposed shut-down of Garda stations and post offices? Look at the experiment where staff have been transferred. New staff had to be recruited to take up the positions. The Minister apparently intends to close some of the Garda stations in the areas of highest crime in Dublin. Which ones will close?

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I have some experience of decentralisation because 75% of the Department of Agriculture and Food has been decentralised out of Dublin.

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Quite appropriate.

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Paul McGrath Mr. P. McGrath Fine Gael

How many were the result of the Minister's decision?

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The most recent decentralisation was to Johnstown Castle in Wexford and to Cavan and Castlebar.

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They do not run Garda stations.

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How many of them run Garda stations?

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The Deputy raised the question of decentralisation. It is intended that there will be further decentralisation under the current programme to Portlaoise. That has commenced already and will continue. It is voluntary. There is an implementation body under the chairmanship of Mr. Phil Flynn and it has produced its report. It will produce another report in July. Each Department has an implementation group and the decentralisation programme is monitored by the decentralisation group within each Department. The voluntary nature of the decentralisation programme is continuing.

The interesting aspect is that public statements are made, in the Dáil and elsewhere, by party spokespeople while in the individual towns identified——

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Will the Minister answer the question?

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What happened to the question?

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What about the Garda stations?

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——questions are being asked——

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What occasion did the Minister offer for statements on decentralisation?

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Deputy Richard Bruton, this is a Labour Party question.

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There has been no occasion whatever and no answers to questions.

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

In fairness to the Labour Party, Deputy Bruton should leave the questions to its Members.

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——as to what is being done about it, when it will start and when people will come down to those towns. With regard to the other question Deputy Rabbitte raised on Garda strength and the closure of Garda stations——

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What ones will have to close?

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——Garda strength is at an all-time high. If the Deputy has a specific question, he should put down a parliamentary question on the matter.

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I believe that the Ceann Comhairle has a role here. If the Taoiseach must be away on business——

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Sorry, Deputy, with regard to the role of the Chair, the Chair might have been negligent this morning in that the Deputy asked two questions rather than one and, under Standing Order 26(3)(a), he is only entitled to ask one question on a topical issue.

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No, I did not. I asked one question about Garda stations and I did not get an answer. I merely pointed out the conflict of closing rural Garda stations and post offices with a professed commitment to decentralisation. With all due respect, I will explain what I am asking without help from you.

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Sorry, Deputy——

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You are the most partisan Chair this House has ever had.

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Deputy——

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I asked questions about Garda stations and I am merely pointing out——

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

I ask the Deputy to withdraw the remark that the Chair is partisan.

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I am merely pointing out to you——

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Deputy, I am asking you to withdraw the remark.

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He is losing it.

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I am not losing it and I do not want advice from the boot-boy from Dundalk.

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Deputy Rabbitte, I ask you to withdraw the remark that the Chair is partisan.

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A Cheann Comhairle, time after time you intervene to protect the Government.

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Deputy, I am asking you to withdraw the remark.

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Time after time, you do it virtually every day and I am sick of it.

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Deputy, I am asking you to withdraw the remark.

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I am sick of your partisan approach.

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Deputy, I am asking you——

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You are congenitally incapable of being fair.

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

If the Deputy does not withdraw the remarks, he knows the options. I ask you to withdraw the remarks.

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I asked about Garda stations and I got no answer.

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Deputy, before you proceed, do you intend to withdraw the remarks?

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I will not withdraw the remarks because you are unfair every day.

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Deputy——

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You intervene to protect the Government at every opportunity.

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Deputy, I ask you to withdraw that remark.

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I will not withdraw it. You are disgracefully partisan.

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

All right, Deputy.

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I am sick of it.

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

As you are the leader of a party, the Chair intends to give you time.

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Any time you can intervene to protect the Government, you intervene. The Minister did not answer one iota of the question I asked about Garda stations.

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

I intend to give you time, Deputy, to consider your position before you are asked to leave the House.

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I asked about Garda stations and the Minister did not answer one aspect of the question, then you give me a lecture about decentralisation.

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

I am suspending the sitting for five minutes.

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You can suspend what you like.

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Deputy Rabbitte, once again I request that you withdraw your remark.

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I am sorry my remarks led to disruption of the House, but I regret I cannot withdraw them. I will withdraw from the House rather than do so.

Deputy Rabbitte withdrew from the Chamber.

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May I raise a point of order?

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

No, we are on Leaders' Questions.

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May I raise a point of order immediately afterwards?

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Yes.

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