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Dáil
‹ Leaders’ Questions.

Inequality and social protection

Summary

Sargent challenged the Government’s position on inequality and cited concerns about social protection and its commitment to a fair society. The Taoiseach denied that the Government fostered inequality, pointing to welfare spending, benefit increases and employment.

Does the Taoiseach agree that ours is a very unequal society? Reports on divisions within his Government show clearly that Fianna Fáil and the Progressive Democrats are not singing from the same hymn sheet on a number of matters. I refer particularly to the statement of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform which expressed Progressive Democrat policy to the effect that inequality is good for the economy. If the Taoiseach agrees with that, where stands Sustaining Progress, which states that a central theme of the agreement is the building of a fair and inclusive society to ensure people have resources and opportunities to live life with dignity? Do we understand that this in effect means unequal opportunities?

Where does the Taoiseach stand on the row involving the Minister for Transport offering two licences for private bus routes? Will he support the Minister and the Tánaiste and face down the unions, or will he insist on negotiations with the unions? Where does he stand on the Tánaiste's and Michael O'Leary's views on the building of a second terminal at Dublin Airport? Will he support his backbenchers and negotiate with the unions?

It is quite baffling that the Tánaiste stated it was urgent the Cabinet reshuffled its approach to some tough but nonetheless important decisions. What does the Taoiseach understand that to mean regarding the policy the Government will follow? Will Fianna Fáil or the Progressive Democrats decide where progress is made?

Comment on this

There are a lot of questions there. The Government implements equality measures — we spent €11.3 billion in the welfare budget driving equality measures, while we spent €500 million on social disadvantage in education. All our policies and resources go into trying to reduce poverty. Deputy Sargent will know that surveys show poverty is at historically low levels. We have raised the lowest rates of social welfare by almost two thirds and we have had the largest social welfare and child benefit increases ever.

Deputy Sargent asked about my views on the second airport terminal. It is a good idea if it has private sector involvement. How it is structured and run is a matter for debate and discussion with the trade unions, which is important to resolve, but I agree with the idea of bringing in more people and having more jobs, with proper conditions, in the airport.

The Deputy asked where I stood on the bus licence issue. That is simple — I have been involved with the CityWest Business Complex from the day it started and it has 110 companies which employ up to 6,000 people.

Dublin Bus was invited by the management of CityWest to lay on bus services directly to the business campuses for some of those 6,000 people who travel by public transport. In fairness to Deputy Sargent, he is consistent in that regard. Dublin Bus expressed no interest in providing the service so the management of CityWest approached a private operator, Morton's Coaches, which duly applied to the Department for two Dublin bus licences. Dublin Bus expressed no interest yet some of its workers want to go into dispute over it which is madness. That is where I stand on that issue.

Comment on this

The Taoiseach knows that is inaccurate.

Comment on this

I asked the Taoiseach specifically about the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy McDowell's comments on inequality being good for the economy. Does the Taoiseach agree with that? What is his position on fostering inequality? Does he agree, as was mentioned on Question Time, that, according to a graph by the European Commission on percentage divergence in national social protection expenditure levels in the EU, Ireland in terms of GNP and GDP is at the bottom of the league in regard to social protection and equality? Will the Taoiseach confront the view which is gaining credence in his Government that inequality is good for the economy? Does he agree that countries such as Sweden, France and Germany, which are at the upper end of the scale in terms of proper provision for the services about which he often talks and which are countries where, as it so happens, the Green Party was in government, should be the model he should follow if he is determined to address the social deprivation which was a reason he lost so badly in this election?

Comment on this

I do not want this country to be like Sweden. I do not want a high tax rate, a high dependency rate and many of the other difficulties it has. We have heard all about great countries and great health care. We always referred to the French system but one should look at what happened as soon as they faced a bit of a problem. The Swedes have their own problems with health care.

The Deputy asked me if we stood for inequality. No Government since the foundation of the State has done so much to level the base. That is why 1.8 million people, more than 60% of the adult population, is working. That is why we have so many people in third level education and why we expend resources all the time to help people who are disadvantaged. There are difficulties. I am not saying every issue has been resolved. However, I will not allow it to be said that there have not been huge advances. As the Deputy knows, 200,000 people have been lifted out of the poverty net. It is not correct to state we are at the bottom of the league. This country is not at the bottom of the league in any of those areas.

Comment on this