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Dáil
‹ Leaders’ Questions.

Class sizes and special-needs education

Summary

Kenny accused the Government of breaking its pledge to reduce average class sizes and raised delays and access problems in special-needs education. The Taoiseach cited additional teachers, lower pupil-teacher ratios and expanded supports, while disputing claims about access to the Department and the scale of unmet need.

The Government promised in its programme for Government to cut average class sizes. This was not just an election promise but rather a firm commitment in the programme for Government. The programme stated that "over the next five years, we will progressively introduce maximum class guidelines which will ensure that the average size of classes for children under nine years of age will be below the international best practice guideline of 20:1". That commitment is now another broken contract and amounts to nothing more than an announcement to the nation by the Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Hanafin, that this has now become a noble aspiration.

How can the Taoiseach continue to preside over a Government where, day after day, each time Ministers speak, they either put their foot in it or break another promise? What type of Government is the Taoiseach leading? The reality is that the INTO says this objective is doable. The Minister, Deputy Hanafin, is not entirely to blame in this but she sat at the Cabinet table for the last two and a half years where these decisions were made and where, because of mismanagement and bad planning, the Taoiseach and his Government have arrived at the end of the year with a litany of broken contracts that become noble aspirations.

Next year, there will be 1,000 graduates from St. Patrick's Training College in Dublin and Mary Immaculate College in Limerick, 300 more from the smaller colleges and 400 from the on-line course run by Hibernia College. There will be approximately 800 teachers lost between retirements and those leaving the system. Inside the next two and a half years, therefore, this is doable. What does the Taoiseach say to the parents of the 110,000 children in class sizes of 30 or more today? What does he say to parents of the 250,000 children who are in class sizes of between 20 and 30? We are way above the European average. What is beginning to happen is that mainline education is suffering because of bad planning by the Taoiseach and his Government. I want the Taoiseach to speak to the nation and tell the people how a broken contract has become a noble aspiration.

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It is an awful pity the Deputy's party did not put a few more trainee teachers into teacher training schools when he had an opportunity to do so when there were fewer than 500 such students. However, we now at least have 1,280 students coming through the teacher training schools.

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Please God, if we get an opportunity to do so we will deal with that.

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Allow the Taoiseach to continue without interruption.

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It is always good to start with the truth. The truth is that there were fewer than 500 teachers coming through the system.

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What about the promises?

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This was the Taoiseach's system.

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

This is Deputy Kenny's question.

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I will deal with that point shortly. More than 4,000 additional teachers have been employed in recent years. These additional teachers have been used to reduce class sizes, tackle educational disadvantage and provide additional resources for children with special needs. The pupil teacher ratio has fallen from 22.2:1 in 1996-97 to 17.44:1 in 2003-04. Average class sizes have been reduced from 26.6 to 23.9 in the corresponding years. Significantly smaller class sizes have been introduced in disadvantaged schools involved in Giving Children an Even Break or in the Breaking the Cycle programme. Approximately 47,700 pupils in participating schools availed of reduced class sizes of 15 to 20 pupils. The annual intake of undergraduate students in the teacher training colleges has increased from fewer than 500 in 1996 to more than 1,000 in 2004. A further 280 places or thereabouts have been provided in postgraduate teacher training courses this year, bringing to 1,280 the number of students entering our teacher training colleges this year.

It is true that we have not yet done what we set out to do, but the Government is committed to reaching its target. Along the way it has examined the figures, identified where the problems are arising and assigned teachers to those areas where there is educational disadvantage and social exclusion to try to reduce the class sizes in those areas. That has been successful, although it has not been completed, but the position has been improved dramatically.

The programme for Government states the objective in respect of class sizes. Deputy Kenny was correct in respect of the class sizes for under nine year olds. We will continue to work towards the objective. Deputy Kenny correctly quoted the figures for the number of pupils in classes. Some 700 teachers retire every year. We are unlikely to increase the capacity of St. Patrick's College, the Limerick college or the smaller college to the level to take account of that, even though there are capital programmes under consideration in some of these areas.

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We could if we had the political will to do so.

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The reality is that as teachers come on board, we have to either slavishly follow what was set down or examine the more appropriate area to which to assign them, for which I make no apologies. Deputy Kenny asked me to speak to the nation. If they are listening, and I hope they are, we made a decision to assign 2,500 teachers to resource education — in respect of which we did not make a promise — rather than just reduce the PPR to assist those most in need. If it is a question of resources and whether one stands for the upper echelons of society or for those on the margins, I stand by the people on the margins.

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The Taoiseach started off by saying that it is good to start with the truth. It is also good to stand by the truth. He is reverting to his ethics in Government, which is to get in here and stay here at all costs.

I am not sure whether the Taoiseach understands just how bad this position is. When he speaks of resources in the area of special education, the position is that the Department of Education and Science is advising principals not to contact it by telephone about any problems. Does the Taoiseach understand there are 6,000 assessments untouched in the Department? Does he understand that when he said he is moving to a rights-based system of education for children with special needs that there are all of those thousands of assessments in the Department? At a time when an assessment triggered a placement and a facility for educating those children, the teaching hours of those special needs children are now being reduced from five hours to two hours. Has he spoken to any of the parents of those children? Does he understand the frustration these parents feel when they say the Minister for Education and Science and the Taoiseach have broken their contract and have been telling the people lies?

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

The word "lie" is not appropriate in this House.

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It is not my word; it is the word of thousands of people outside this House, to the effect that the Government cannot be believed. We cannot believe a word out of the mouths of its members. In this matter of education, which is central to our society, the Government calmly announced that another broken contract, another broken promise was merely a noble aspiration. They should be ashamed of themselves.

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I do not wish to keep correcting the Deputy, but I must. It is not true that people are not able to get through by telephone to the Department.

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It is.

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Allow the Taoiseach to continue without interruption.

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It is not the case.

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Not any more.

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It is also incorrect to say that there have not been changes in the special needs area. It is only a fortnight since the announcement of the later tranche of the 500 new special needs assistants.

If Deputy Kenny wants to broaden his first question, then I must broaden the answer to it. It is correct that a consultative process on the future direction of education policy has been under way around the country. We have enacted the legislation for special needs, which is to underpin the rights of children with special needs. We have established a special educational council to facilitate the delivery of the support services for pupils with disabilities in schools.

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The Taoiseach should tell that to parents of children who are losing resource teachers.

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The OECD has engaged in the strategic review of third level education. It has issued a report. We have targeted, support measures for disadvantaged schools. Some 2,276 schools have benefited. Some 4,000 additional teachers have been appointed at primary level. An additional 2,337 teachers have been appointed at post-primary level. The pupil teacher ratio at primary level has been reduced to just over 17:1. The number of teacher training places has been increased by 30%. The pupil teacher ratio for second level, which we are not discussing now, has also been reduced. Since 1997 the number of teaching posts has also been increased dramatically. We have put in enormous resources to support children with disabilities.

While we did not do exactly what is provided for in the programme for Government, I will not say that it was not a right decision to assign resource teachers, special needs teachers, as against what was provided for because it was the right thing to do. It is correct to help the people who are disadvantaged rather than to slavishly follow a figure. I understand there are people who just want to look after the better off; that is not my policy.

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The Taoiseach should understand it; they are very close to him.

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The Deputy could lose me on that one any day of the week.

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