Keeping the Northern Ireland process on track
Rabbitte asks how the Governments will prevent a political vacuum and whether Sinn Féin can remain involved without holding the process to ransom. The Taoiseach rejects exclusion, but says rebuilding trust requires clear answers on criminality and decommissioning; Rabbitte presses him on the republican movement’s intentions and mixed Government signals.
Will the Taoiseach comment on where we now are and where we are going from here? Will the Taoiseach outline to the House what steps he intends to take to prevent the political process in Northern Ireland descending into an unhealthy and undemocratic vacuum? I take it from what the Taoiseach has said that it is not his intention to allow Sinn Féin to hold the process to ransom. In that regard has he any specific plans in terms of how the process can be kept on track? I am not arguing for the exclusion of anyone but does the Taoiseach agree it was an error of judgment on the part of both Governments for the best part of 12 months to exclude the SDLP, the Ulster Unionist Party, the Alliance and others? Does he have plans in terms of how the democratic parties might be involved in a central way? For instance, is he minded to agree that the Forum for Peace and Reconciliation be reconvened to allow the democratic parties to express their views on the impasse that has occurred?
Is it the case that a van was stolen in this jurisdiction in November, apparently in preparation for the crime we now know to have been the robbery of the Northern Bank, and that it crossed out of this jurisdiction the day before? Does that information form part of the Taoiseach's intelligence on this issue? Without endangering any prosecution that might ensue, is he in a position to put any additional information he has in his possession about this matter into the public domain at this time?
Comment on this
In reply to Deputy Rabbitte I reiterate what I said to the parties yesterday. I am not in favour of the politics of exclusion because that would create vacuums that would not help. We have a commitment to implement the Good Friday Agreement and we are determined to continue going down that road. Obviously, if we are to get trust and confidence we then have to get clear answers and commitments on both criminality and decommissioning, otherwise we will not be able to build it up.
On the issue of what way to move now, as the House is aware I have already engaged with the parties. I spoke with the SDLP, UUP as well as Sinn Féin yesterday. Today I had a lengthy telephone conversation with Dr. Paisley. I will meet the Alliance tomorrow, the IMC on Monday and Prime Minister Blair on Tuesday. The difficulty, which I know Deputy Rabbitte understands, is that when the SDLP and the UUP were part of the inner group other parties felt excluded. When the election results changed and the DUP and Sinn Féin were in that position, other parties felt excluded. We try all the time to keep all the parties engaged and we have several meetings. It is always difficult to do that. We never seek to exclude the parties but to keep them involved. We spent a huge amount of time and effort on the decommissioning issue and there was no point in talking to the parties which had nothing to decommission. That happened on other criminal justice issues as well.
Between now and the election we have to engage with all the parties. I do not rule out the forum. If the forum is considered useful I would be happy to have it reconvened as I said yesterday in reply to the SDLP. There is also a slight difficulty with the forum because other parties are out but we can make up for that in other ways and continue to engage in that.
On the question of the security van, I am aware from security intelligence I have been given of the broad movement of the van. It did move through our jurisdiction but it was not taken on this island in the first instance. I am aware of its movements. It was quite sophisticated, well-planned and well executed. It was a van of a very special and rare type and its movements and whereabouts are known to the security forces.
Comment on this
I welcome generally what the Taoiseach has said. Whatever about the feelings of parties, the sidelining of central players, even if it is only a matter of perception — in this case it was more than a matter of perception — is not desirable. In respect of what he has said, is he still persuaded of the bona fides of the republican movement or whether the peace process is being used to grow that organisation, North and South of the Border? Has he concerns that his own Government might be putting out conflicting signals? On the day that the persons in respect of the Northern Bank were held hostage, the Taoiseach told "Sunday Supplement", a radio programme, that "paramilitary activity, training, targeting and those things in the Republic — that is not an issue at the moment". The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform made a number of speeches to the same effect that criminality had been wound down and earlier the Minister for Foreign Affairs said he foresaw Sinn Féin being in Government here sooner than might be generally anticipated. We also had the statement in the House, in answer to Deputy Kenny, about the release of the killers of Jerry McCabe and the apparent willingness, if the choreography had been right, for a deal to be signed off on in Belfast. Suddenly there was this major bout of criminality to which the Taoiseach has referred. Does the Taoiseach acknowledge it is no wonder that in opinion polls the public might be confused about the significance of this fundamental issue when apparently conflicting signals are being given?
Comment on this
That is a fair question. During all of last year security intelligence in the Republic and in the North was that significant moves were being made to make progress as per paragraph 13 on paramilitary activity, training, targeting and such like. At the same time, some large raids took place. Apart from the transparency of decommissioning, which we did not finalise in the comprehensive talks, the final big issue the Government and the Sinn Féin leadership and the Sinn Féin leadership and the IRA were endeavouring to deal with related to criminal activity. It was not possible to get agreement on the formula of words we had put forward. We are left with only one conclusion on that matter now. It was to end the criminality that was going on. We had witnessed almost the total ceasing of punishment beatings and other activities, so much so that Hugh Orde, who has now made statements on this matter which almost everybody in the House supports, went out of his way to make further moves to help the comprehensive agreement in the days immediately before 8 December to help on the demilitarisation front. He felt satisfied and so did the Chief of Staff of the British Army to make those moves. Other activities by the Provisional IRA had increased but these efforts and other issues were still continuing. Our effort was to bring that to an end. We failed to do so in the talks on 8 December and we also had a disagreement on the issue of transparency. This was followed by events such as several punishment shootings both this month and last month. That is the current position. The obligation on us, in spite of where we are, is to try to implement the Good Friday Agreement in all its aspects.
In answer to Deputy Rabbitte's final question, much now depends on what Sinn Féin's reply will be about how it views the two issues of criminality and decommissioning. There is no possibility of being able to go to the other parties — I would not do so anyway — unless we can achieve something major in that area. As I said yesterday, that does not rest with me; it is an issue which rests with the Sinn Féin leadership and the opposite side of the coin, the Provisional IRA.