Northern Bank robbery and Sinn Féin
The Taoiseach said Garda and PSNI chiefs believed the IRA carried out several 2004 operations, including the Northern Bank robbery, with approval known to its leadership. Kenny argued Sinn Féin had negotiated in bad faith and asked whether talks would stop until criminality ended; the Taoiseach said contacts would continue, but progress depended on answers about decommissioning, paramilitarism and criminality.
Will the Taoiseach report to the House on his meeting with the British Prime Minister yesterday and the briefing both Prime Ministers were given by the Garda Commissioner and the Chief Constable of the PSNI? Were the Taoiseach and Prime Minister Blair given new information which further confirmed their stated views that the Northern Bank robbery was carried out by the Provisional IRA with the knowledge of the leadership of Sinn Féin? Can the Taoiseach confirm that both Governments are more clear in their understanding that such was the case? In particular, will the Taoiseach confirm that, following the briefings he was given yesterday, it is now apparently obvious that this bank robbery was being planned over a period of two years and that the Sinn Féin leadership was well aware of a so-called fund raising spectacular being prepared?
In view of the huge damage caused to the Good Friday Agreement and the break down of negotiations, will the Taoiseach repeat that the onus is on the republican movement to show clearly that it is committed to democratic politics and the path of peace and that a gesture of credibility which could be made by the IRA and the republican movement is the unilateral decommissioning of arms that will never be used and which have become the subject of barter in the negotiations? Does the Taoiseach believe they could do this as a measure of credibility and to show that they are serious about getting back to a position where negotiations towards a conclusion of the peace process can begin again?
Comment on this
I will report briefly on yesterday's meeting. The meeting was divided into two sections. One was a briefing by Commissioner Conroy on his assessment, with Hugh Orde, Chief Constable of the PSNI. Both confirmed their positions, that is, Hugh Orde's public statement and the advice given to us by Commissioner Conroy. They believe that a number of operations which took place during 2004, not just the Northern Bank robbery, were the work of the Provisional IRA and would have had the sanction of the army council and be known to the political leadership. That was made clear without equivocation and unambiguously.
Comment on this
Did they present you with evidence?
Comment on this
The position is clear. Collectively, the two Governments and all the parties did an enormous amount of work last year and the previous year. That is set out in the joint declaration and in the working documents that were presented on 8 December in a complete position. If we get a definitive answer from Sinn Féin, for which both of us have asked, about how to deal with decommissioning and, as Deputy Kenny said, if we can get the progress that we were close to getting on 8 December, it would be helpful to the process now and into the future. The second issue is an end to paramilitarism and the related issues of criminality. That is the position.
As we both said yesterday, in a strange way the position is clear now. All the work on various aspects of equality, human rights, demilitarisation and other important issues is documented and listed and the position we are at is now in the public domain. There are no secrets about it; everybody knows it. We can build on those if we get a clear position, which means a road that brings us to the end of criminality, decommissioning and paramilitarism. We have addressed those issues as well. It is really a question of whether people are prepared to do that or not. I hope people are reflecting on that.
It is worth putting it on record again that the reason this is so important is that there is no possibility of getting any trust and confidence back with the parties if we cannot answer those questions. This is a difficult enough year anyway because of the local elections in the North, the general election in the UK and the UK having the presidency of the G8 and the EU Presidency. If we do not get clear positions on these issues, therefore, there is no possibility of us being able to build up trust and confidence over the months ahead. I have now talked to all of the parties. I had spoken to some of them before reporting to the House last week. I have spoken to all of them now and that is the position of all parties. It is not a question of the Government being able to move forward. There is no possibility of getting anywhere until we get answers to those questions.
Comment on this
Based on the information supplied by the Taoiseach and on his words, it is obvious that Sinn Féin has been negotiating with the Irish and British Governments over a period of time in very bad faith. Sinn Féin has clearly destroyed the level of trust by serious breaches of faith.
Comment on this
It shows the level of folly of the Taoiseach's Government in putting on the table the issue of the early release of the killers of Detective Garda McCabe. The Taoiseach confirmed last week that the matter had been taken off the table. In the context of his comments about the re-commencement of negotiations, is the Taoiseach saying there will be no further negotiations with Sinn Féin until such time as criminality is ended or a statement of intent to end criminality is made by that party and the Provisional IRA? At issue is an end to smuggling of whiskey, knee-capping, punishment beatings, diesel laundering, confiscation of cigarettes, smuggling of vodka, bank robberies and all the other elements of racketeering and criminality which abound and are driven by the Provisional IRA with, as the Taoiseach says, the knowledge of the leadership of Sinn Féin.
Is the Taoiseach saying there will be no more negotiations with Sinn Féin until it states that criminality is at an end or we see it is at an end or is he just waiting for a statement of intent? When one follows the line of breaches of trust and confidence in the way Sinn Féin has negotiated to date, it strikes me as remarkable that in 2002, as the Special Criminal Court was told yesterday, election posters stating "Sinn Féin, No. 1 Ó Snodaigh" were found along with stun guns and CS gas in the boot of a car. That does not appear to be characteristic of a party intent on following the path of peace and democratic politics. I would like the Taoiseach to be as strong as he was last week in this area. He knows the view of the Fine Gael Party on dealing with criminality in all its forms and on seeing a full conclusion through peaceful, democratic negotiations to the Good Friday Agreement to allow the people of this island, North and South, to get on with the business of living their lives in the manner in which they should be entitled.
Comment on this
The overall objective is full implementation of the Good Friday Agreement. Unless we get clear understandings and a definitive position on what is classified as paragraph 13, which spells out in detail what we are talking about, we cannot make progress. Secretary of State, Mr. Paul Murphy, has a meeting today with Sinn Féin and a British-Irish intergovernmental conference has been set up. Talks and contacts will go on but the position is that until we get answers to the questions Prime Minister Blair and I put on the three areas of decommissioning, paramilitarism and criminality, we are not going to get anywhere. Everybody knows that. We have to get an answer on those issues. It is not a question of it all happening in negotiations, as Deputy Kenny knows, in December. While it was not all going to happen overnight, at least there was a clear plan of how it was going to happen. We are talking about whether that is possible.
I accept what Deputy Kenny said about what was going on while we were in the negotiations. There is no doubt that the planning and operation of these issues were taking place. I heard yesterday for the first time face to face from Hugh Orde, the head of the PSNI, and from the Garda Commissioner that the Dunmurry, macro and cigarette issues arose last year. There was no going around the houses in the conversations given their security briefings. Obviously, we were in negotiations then. Having said that, many of the issues over the years were taken on trust. All prisoners were allowed out at different times and we did all sorts of things on that basis. Many times one was ambiguous to try to make progress, as we both said yesterday and on previous occasions.
That was then and this is now. Things move on. We are trying to establish in Northern Ireland the Assembly for which people voted and the Executive to get the operation of the administration there working on a cross-party basis. We cannot do that unless we end these issues. Quite frankly, if we had succeeded in concluding these matters on 8 December, we would have been going through the period of preparation when events would have blown the roof off our houses. There is no doubt that we were not going to get anywhere as happened a few years ago when other issues arose. There is no point in trying to bring this to a conclusion unless we come to what the final issues are. For once, the final issues are clear to everybody. If that happens, all of the other issues we have signed up to in the joint declaration to bring peace, stability and confidence to improve the quality of life for everyone in Northern Ireland can kick in. We cannot do it the other way around.