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Dáil
‹ Leaders’ Questions.

Commitment to reduce class sizes

Summary

Rabbitte challenges the Government to honour its commitment to bring average class sizes below 20 pupils per teacher. The Taoiseach says the average has fallen to 23.9 and that the Government intends further reductions.

I wish to raise with the Taoiseach a matter relating to the programme for Government. As we all know, that agreement was entered into after the election so we are not talking about election promises. The Taoiseach stated in the programme for Government:

We will continue to reduce the pupil-teacher ratio in our schools. Over the next five years we will progressively introduce maximum class size guidelines which will ensure that the average size of classes for children will be below best international practice of 20:1.

The position is that more than 100,000 children are catered for in classes that range from 30 to 39 pupils. Obviously, children in bigger schools suffer most.

Let us look at, for example, Kildare and Meath, for no particular reason. The Government has reached its target of a class size of under 20 in 4% of cases in Kildare and in 10% of schools in Meath. Some 37% of pupils in Kildare and 34% in Meath are taught in classes of between 30 and 39. Meath has the second largest class size in the entire country with 44 children in one class. There has been no move at all on class sizes. It would appear the new Minister for Education and Science — I will sit down before she gets a note to the Taoiseach — has retreated from this aim. She described it as a "noble aspiration" on a recent television programme. I do not know if that is what she has written in the note to the Taoiseach but it would appear she has retreated from the promise in the programme for Government.

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Jim O'Keeffe Mr. J. O’Keeffe Fine Gael

Can the Taoiseach read her writing?

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We have promised and continue to pursue the commitment to reduce class sizes. The average class size in primary schools has now gone down to just under 24. It was previously over 27. This is the smallest class size in our history. We are determined to lower class sizes even further to below the international best practice figure of 20.

In recent years we have invested resources in special needs and education for the disadvantaged. Deputy Rabbitte would accept that all areas are not equal. This is an issue about which I feel strongly and have spoken on several times. It is not simply a case of dividing the number of teachers by the number of children in the population. That is flawed thinking. I accept that we should aim to achieve the international best practice target in all schools. However, focusing on schools in disadvantaged and marginalised areas, which have high levels of unemployment or social disadvantage, where we have to implement active programmes, including pre-school and after-school care, breakfast clubs and school lunches to attract children and help them, is a better system than looking at the global issue. In the area of special needs, class size is 1:15 and 1:20, which is as it should be. It would be sad if we were simply to reduce class sizes to 22 or 23 everywhere. It is preferable that we try to target resources. This year the number of special needs teachers has reached 4,000. Class size is already at or below the target for the areas that really need it, those which have been designated as priority areas.

I am happy to talk about Kildare where €85 million has been provided for major school building and modernisation projects in the past five years. We have invested significant sums of money in NUI Maynooth where student numbers have increased dramatically. We have also invested significant resources in other areas of education in County Kildare and in County Meath.

In reply to Deputy Rabbitte's question, international best practice is a class size of 20 and we are reducing it. I think Deputy Rabbitte would agree with the point that it is far better that we target resources and get lower class sizes, which we have done, in disadvantaged and marginalised areas.

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The Taoiseach is right. I might well agree with him but all I am doing is pointing to the programme for Government that he agreed with the Progressive Democrats. The Taoiseach does not agree with it. He gave a clear commitment that he would bring class size below the international best practice guideline of 20:1 within five years. That was a Government agreement. Whether I agree with the Taoiseach's latest position is neither here nor there. I accept children these days are immensely bright but none of the primary school children in Kildare go to NUI Maynooth. That is two stages later. Why has the Government departed from that commitment? The Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Hanafin, described the programme for Government as a "noble aspiration" on Ursula Halligan's television programme, which I saw.

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It is noble.

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Ivor Callely has noble aspirations.

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That is not much good to children in large classes.

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