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Dáil
‹ Leaders’ Questions.

Repayment of unlawful charges on older people

Summary

Kenny pressed for a prompt, fair repayment after the Supreme Court ruling and clarification on limitation periods, estates, and legislation. The Tánaiste said the Government was assessing a complex claim involving about 275,000 people, expected a report shortly, and would not cut health or other departmental Estimates.

Many thousands of elderly people and their families are anxiously waiting for the Government's response to last week's Supreme Court decision which rejected its attempt to retrospectively deny people their legal rights. The net effect of the judgment, as the Tánaiste will be aware, is that tens of thousands of people were illegally charged over a prolonged period. Yesterday, the Minister for Finance promised this matter would be dealt with quickly and in a non-legalistic way.

Will the Tánaiste confirm that rather than deal with this issue quickly, the Cabinet, by setting up a sub-committee, has effectively kicked to touch on it? Will she confirm that there will be a statutorily based scheme to repay those who were illegally charged? When will it be established? Will the estates of deceased persons be refunded? Arising from the setting up of the Cabinet sub-committee today and in view of the fact thousands of people are very anxious to know about this matter, how are people expected to proceed with the lodging of claims or will they be contacted by the structure arising from the sub-committee? What level of proof and documentation will be required? When is it likely to emerge? Where will the contact point be for persons who were victims or the next-of-kin of those who were involved in the issuing of probate for estate? When can they expect this matter to be dealt with in a non-legalistic way?

Comment on this

The Government is anxious to ensure the individuals affected and their families or their estates are repaid as quickly, efficiently and as fairly as possible. As the Deputy acknowledged in the number of questions he asked, this is a complex and mammoth task because we are talking about approximately 275,000 people. Clearly, the Statute of Limitations cannot apply to anybody who was not of sound mind, which would include many citizens in mental institutions, or perhaps intellectually disabled individuals. It is the intention to pay into the estates of individuals. However, considerable issues arise, including the administrative issue and the cost issue in that we are talking about a minimum of €500 million, although it may be substantially more than that.

For all these reasons and given that we have never gone down this road before in terms of the scale of what is involved, the Government felt, after a long discussion on this matter today, that the relevant Ministers together with the Attorney General should meet quickly — we will meet tomorrow — to look at the issues, including the possibility of a statutory scheme being put in place. Above all else, we want to avoid individuals having to take legal action to receive compensation if we can.

Comment on this

I thank the Tánaiste for her reply. Arising from it, is she confirming that the Statute of Limitations will not apply to persons of sound mind going back beyond six years or to cases where persons were of sound mind but are now deceased, that is, to the estates of those persons? Can the Tánaiste confirm when she expects to bring the new Bill before the House in respect of the element of the judgment which was deemed to be constitutional, in other words the charges for the future? Most importantly in respect of a question Deputy Rabbitte asked last Thursday and which the Tánaiste answered, can she confirm that no diminution of existing health services will take place arising from the scale and scope of the charge against the State? If this is to be of the order of €2 billion, as has been rumoured, when will the Government bring a Supplementary Estimate before the House? Despite what the Minister for Finance has said, can the Tánaiste confirm that people involved in the health services and other services will not be short-changed this year arising from the Government's decision? When does the Tánaiste expect to have sight of the Travers report? Does she expect it to be published before the upcoming by-elections in view of the clarity of the Supreme Court's statement about that element of the judgment?

Comment on this

It will be necessary to introduce a Supplementary Estimate this year. Clearly we will need to see the nature of what will be involved this year before we decide when to do that. Regarding the remarks of the Minister for Finance, Deputy Cowen, clearly the money that will need to be repaid is money that could be used for other matters. There will be no cutbacks in the Estimate for the health service this year or in other departmental Estimates as I confirmed in the House last Thursday.

Mr. Travers interviewed me last Friday and indicated his report is imminent. I expect to have it by or before 1 March. I intend to publish it immediately after bringing it to Government.

Comment on this