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Dáil
‹ Leaders’ Questions.

Anti-social behaviour and Garda enforcement

Summary

Rabbitte says anti-social behaviour is blighting communities and argues that existing and proposed laws are ineffective without enforcement. The Taoiseach acknowledges the problem but points to falling crime, increased Garda numbers and resources, and legislation; the exchange becomes a heated dispute over Garda deployment, community policing and support for tougher measures.

For more than 25 years, the Taoiseach has been reputed to run an extremely expensive constituency operation out of St. Luke's. He is proud of his reputation as one who works at ground level frequently. In that case, how is it that he does not know about the phenomenon of anti-social behaviour? If he does, how come the Government is not doing anything to address it? Does he understand the extent to which the lives of ordinary people in so many communities are being blighted by anti-social behaviour? Does he appreciate that people are living in fear in communities because of vandalism, petty crime, anti-social behaviour and congregating youths whose activities are characterised by menace, intimidation and harassment?

The Taoiseach must have the same number of cases in his constituency as I do in mine. I know this phenomenon is worst in local authority estates but it is not only a phenomenon of such estates. The Taoiseach must know that the lives of women living alone, old people, immigrants and people who are selected for persecution and harassment merely because they are perceived to be different in some way are being made a misery in so many neighbours. I am told that this is no longer just an urban phenomenon. It is so serious that my office reckons one in four of the cases with which it deals relates to anti-social behaviour.

People are being driven out of communities in which they have put down roots and worked. People's property is being destroyed in their driveway. Only last Saturday, a woman visited me whose car has been damaged three times since Christmas. Youths are selecting people for persecution. There is joyriding in the vicinity in the evening and at night. Drug taking is occurring in public spaces and parks.

The desecration of the environment is also a factor, as is the tearing down of telephone booths and the existence of graffiti everywhere. It is an horrific problem, not least for those living alone and old people who are afraid to go to the shop or venture out in the evening. It is simply not acceptable that so many of our citizens have no resort to anyone to give them relief. They are living under the circumstances I have described day in, day out. What is the Government doing about this? The Taoiseach must know about it given the constituency machine that operates out of St. Luke's.

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Of course I know about it. As the Deputy inferred, I have known about people being involved in anti-social behaviour for 28 years and the kinds of difficulties that affect the Deputy's area, my area and others. I note the good work of the Garda over the years and the legislation we have passed in this House. This is reflected in my constituency where statistics produced this year, last year and the preceding year indicate reductions in crime.

There is a problem with anti-social behaviour. The Minister has identified it very clearly and has spoken about it. The Criminal Justice Bill before the House is targeted directly at making provision in this regard and allowing us to deal with this issue in a new way by examining what is happening in other countries. The anti-social behaviour orders in the Bill are designed to deal with the problem. Under the Bill, a civil order can be made in respect of an individual. If the individual breaches it he or she will be guilty of a criminal offence. That individual can be taken up without warrant. Curfews can be applied in certain areas.

Also provided for is a string of other powers that are necessary to stop what is a small group of people who continually harass their neighbours and communities. Sometimes the individuals are under age and although we have passed tough laws in this House, whereby drink can be taken from them and whereby they are not allowed to loiter or use their ghettoblasters or motorbikes, some of them still persist in engaging in such activities. It is for that reason the Minister has, in this Criminal Justice Bill, adopted what will be regarded by many as a draconian position. If the Minister had tried to introduced the legislation some years ago, the reaction might have been different.

I well remember the Criminal Justice Act passed in this House 20 years ago. Certain people, including myself, were fighting at that stage for far tougher measures but there was no support for them. However, now that we suffer at the hands of a small band of people who engage in the aforementioned activities, I hope we will all support the Minister. I know Deputy Rabbitte will do so because he often speaks on the matter. It is tough to introduce civil orders the breaching of which will be a criminal offence. It will be possible to apprehend those who breach the orders without warrant. These are very tough measures. People will be down to St. Luke's complaining about them. Parents do so now and say their Johnny is getting a rough time from the police. However, the reality is that if young people do not get a bit of a rough time from the police, we will never address these issues. I welcome the tough measures and the orders the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform is bringing before the House in this session. While this House would not have supported these in the past they are now necessary to stop a small band of hooligans who persist in doing the things Deputy Rabbitte has mentioned.

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The Taoiseach is kidding himself if he thinks that is an effective response to the phenomenon I am bringing to his attention. The Taoiseach can ask the Tánaiste about our good labour laws and how the problems occurred at Gama Construction.

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The Tánaiste brought Gama Construction into the country.

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That is not true.

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If the law is not enforced it is an academic topic for debate. The people who visit me every week are not interested in a lecture about existing laws or those in prospect, or the speeches of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. They are interested in what happens on a Saturday night when they are under siege from youths congregating outside who threaten them in their own homes, when their cars and property are being damaged and when they do not know whether the local school can be left vacant during summer recess because of the extent of damage to schools and public property.

Community policing does not obtain in most urban areas. As soon as the community police officer establishes a rapport with the local community he or she is transferred elsewhere. At the first sign of crisis the first person to be raided is the community police officer. There are no active community patrols in many of the neighbourhoods at issue. Resort to the Garda Síochána does not work because the Garda does not respond effectively. People plead for help in their homes but cannot get it from the local authority or the Garda.

We must address the question of community policing with people indigenous to the community who know the troublesome factions. We need to develop community sanctions and make these factions clean up the mess they create. We must give people who live in these circumstances some relief. It is pointless for the Taoiseach to tell me he has known about this for 28 years. This did not happen 28 years ago on the scale on which it happens everywhere now.

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I do not know what type of area Deputy Rabbitte represents——

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The Taoiseach is out there often enough.

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——but the problems he mentions have been around for 28 years and far longer.

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There used to be gardaí.

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There are 14,000 gardaí.

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There are no gardaí on the beat.

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The Taoiseach is meeting too many Heads of State.

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Seven minutes were allotted for this question. Deputy Rabbitte has used five and a half minutes. The Taoiseach is entitled to be heard without interruption and the Chair will insist on that.

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The Taoiseach is out of touch.

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There are more gardaí than ever before.

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They are minding Farmleigh.

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A large proportion of gardaí policed the Border and were involved in Northern Ireland duties but when the ceasefire in Northern Ireland was declared this Government moved many of those gardaí back into urban areas to deal with anti-social behaviour and crime. That is why there has been a significant reduction in crime in many areas across the board.

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People are afraid to report crime.

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We have over 1,200 extra gardaí. We spend 90% more on the Garda Síochána than we did in 1997. We have put far more resources into the force than ever before, we have more Garda technology, manpower, facilities and prisons. Deputy Rabbitte asked——

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It is a failure of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform.

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It is the Minister's failure.

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The Labour Party Members are on cue this morning. As soon as the Taoiseach speaks they all start chattering. If they would stay quiet for a minute I could give them some facts.

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It is in the Taoiseach's hands.

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They are trying to display a semblance of unity.

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Deputy Rabbitte stated that laws are no good but I am not sure what he is suggesting as the alternative. The only way we can deal with these issues is by having proper laws.

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Put gardaí on the streets.

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Enforce the laws.

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I hope when we bring in tough orders that there will not be the usual lame approach to them.

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Put in the gardaí to enforce them.

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We need action on them.

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I recall what the Opposition said when two years ago a community garda in this city stood up to deal with the unfair elements. I answered in this House for that garda, who tried to clear out a few hooligans and vandals from the May Day celebrations. I was trying to defend the poor man. The Labour Party talks about community gardaí but give no support to community policing.

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That is outrageous.

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The Taoiseach told us he was with the people. He was clearing the way.

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He was some community garda.

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The Labour Party gives the Garda Síochána no support but undermines it instead. If it wants to help the gardaí it should give them the powers and support they need.

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Give them a few batons.

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Batons rather than resources.

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The Labour Party Members should not talk out of both sides of their mouths. They should support the Garda Síochána and civil orders and criminal justice issues. That is what they need to do. It is the old story — Deputy Rabbitte went on a few tours and attended a few meetings where he heard this problem has been around for years.

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The Taoiseach said it has been going on for 28 years.

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He is raising it today but he has no interest in supporting tough action by a tough Minister to deal with this issue. We will test him on that in a few weeks' time.

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