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Dáil
‹ Leaders’ Questions.

Ferns report investigation and child protection

Summary

Sargent presses the Taoiseach on why abuse and institutional failures went unaddressed, whether they could recur, and whether the promised investigation will explain the pre-1990 failures. The Taoiseach cites prosecutions, child-protection laws and vetting measures, while Sargent argues that the Gardaí and child-protection bodies lack adequate resources; the Taoiseach says further measures identified in the report will be enacted.

The Ferns report throws a glaring light on a very dark period of suffering, criminal activity, complicity and an appalling conspiracy of silence. It is sickening and makes my stomach turn just reading it. People outside this House, as well as those here, want answers to two basic questions. First, how was it allowed to happen? Second, could it happen again?

As of now, I fear the answer to the latter question is that it could. With regard to the former question, I wish to ask about the investigation that has been promised. Does the Taoiseach think that we are going to find out why no Garda files existed prior to 1988 on the abuse cases in the Ferns diocese? Is it not shocking to learn about such a black hole in Garda files? More shocking still is the report that the office of the Garda Commissioner was aware of the abuse by Fr. Grennan and therefore, according to "Morning Ireland", the political masters of the Garda must also have been aware of it.

It is also shocking to hear that a councillor tried to propose a motion concerning the sexual abuse at a meeting of the South Eastern Health Board but got support from only one other councillor. Will the investigation go as wide as it needs to go? Will it go from the Taoiseach and the Commissioner down and cover the health boards and the churches?

With regard to the question as to whether this could happen again, the Ombudsman for Children is on record as saying that legislation in areas of her responsibility is not strong enough. There are many sections of the Children Act 2001 that have still not been implemented. The Sexual Offences Act of 2003, in section 10, regarding notification, states that we need better notification, that gardaí need to be able to respond if somebody brings a report of a paedophile in an area to them. We know that the response is uneven. There is no direction, manual or handbook guiding the gardaí. Is the Taoiseach aware if, within the Garda code, there is a proper response outlined for gardaí in the event of information about a paedophile coming to light? Will the Taoiseach take action on that? Such action must be taken now and, indeed, should have been taken a long time ago.

Comment on this

Mr. Justice Murphy sets out the position since 1962 so I will not go back over that. We must recognise that progress has been made in many areas. The gardaí in the diocese, as per this report, have rightly prosecuted child abusers since 1990 and their omissions of the past have been corrected. Mr. Justice Murphy also emphasised the independence and integrity of the Garda Síochána over that period of 15 years. That is a considerable period of time, notwithstanding what was done by one senior member of the force in the past, which obviously nobody would stand over.

The health board has shown a willingness and a determination to investigate. As the Minister of State, Deputy Brian Lenihan, has pointed out, the whole issue now is to promote and foster a climate and culture of reporting child abuse in our society to achieve maximum disclosure. There are legislative areas that require more work and we will do that work.

Deputy Sargent mentioned protocols and the protocols in every area should be examined, based on this report. Many of the recommendations would be very helpful in updating such protocols and based on this experience, it is important that this is done. From the Government's point of view, while we have a number of Acts in place, Mr. Justice Murphy has pointed to two Acts in particular that should be dealt with and we have agreed that we will deal with them.

We are examining how we can conduct an audit or analyse cases around the country where perhaps there have been prosecutions previously to try to make things right for the future. By building on the 1996 framework document and this report, we will try to make things better.

The good thing to come out of this — terrible though it is — is that we have a good basis for action. Hopefully, we will see co-operation from the churches, though obviously we must be satisfied ourselves and not leave matters to them. We must be satisfied that we have the powers to act, but we also need the co-operation of the churches and other areas of society so that we can take the experience of this, and other reports over the last ten or 12 years, to make sure we are seeing a change. This report seems to indicate that we have seen a substantial change in recent years, both in Ferns and elsewhere. It is now up to us to make sure that this remains the case and that change happens in the rest of the country.

Comment on this

The Taoiseach has not answered my questions relating to the pre-1990 period. I must ask him again, if, for example, he believes that it was right for the aforementioned councillor to only be supported by one other councillor. Is there not a veil of shame over the lack of political response when the information came to light? This information has been coming to light over a number of years, since the mid-1990s. Much of what is in this report would already have been known, one way or the other, though perhaps not in the graphic and horrific detail that is printed here. A large amount of information was already in the public domain.

The register for people considered unsafe to work with children is still languishing under the heading of promised legislation. The Taoiseach has said this is due to a blockage because the Northern Ireland Assembly is not up and running. However, the PSNI has structures in place and has a handbook or manual on how to deal with people who come to it reporting incidents of paedophilia or of someone considered unsafe to work with children arriving in an area.

Will the Taoiseach now make up for a lot of lost time? Will he put in place a system, like the one in existence in the North, a type of vetting procedure which can tell a person if there is a conviction of, or suspicion around, an individual? In the South, only the health boards and a limited number of organisations, such as Barnardo's, can avail of such a vetting procedure. Youth clubs, dance clubs, scouting groups and so forth cannot avail of the vetting procedure. When will it become available? If someone running a crèche wants to vet staff and calls the gardaí, he or she will be told that the gardaí do not have the resources.

This is a matter of grave urgency and this report makes all the more stark the fact that the Government has not acted and responded in the way it should. We should have mandatory reporting of sex abuse allegations and we should have the resources in place so that people can be vetted. At the moment, neither of these is in place and events like those described in this report could happen all over again.

Comment on this

I cannot answer the question as to why people who had suspicions or information relating to people in the 1950s, 1960s or 1970s did not come forward ——

Comment on this

And the 1980s and 1990s.

Comment on this

I have outlined the position in more recent years. Perhaps Deputy Sargent is not aware of what is already on the Statute Book because the Sex Offenders Act 2001, which provides for the monitoring of convicted sex offenders, has been on the Statute Book for over four years. We established the Garda central vetting unit over three and a half years ago to ensure that those working with children are screened.

Comment on this

The unit does not have sufficient resources.

Comment on this

That unit was doubled in size recently.

Comment on this

Doubled from what?

Comment on this

We enacted the Child Trafficking and Pornography Act 1998. We established the office of the Ombudsman for Children. Large sections of the Children Act that relate to this specific area have been enacted. We also have the Protection of Children (Hague Convention) Act 2000. Most of the matters raised by the Deputy are covered by legislation that is already on the Statute Book ——

Comment on this

The ISPCC does not have the resources. The gardaí do not have the resources.

Comment on this

There are other measures highlighted in this report that must be enacted and as I have just said, we will do that.

Comment on this

The resources have not been given to the gardaí.

Comment on this