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Dáil
‹ Leaders’ Questions.

Climate policy and emissions

Summary

Sargent urges urgent action on climate change and asks about Ireland’s climate strategy, transport emissions and related planning and building measures. The Taoiseach says a strategy review will propose cost-effective steps towards Kyoto targets, while arguing that environmental action must be balanced with economic needs; Sargent and other Green deputies challenge the Government’s ambition.

Earlier this month——

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What will be done about the shooters?

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Deputy Sargent should be allowed to speak without interruption.

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——the EU Environment Commissioner, Stavros Dimas, made the shocking statement in Dublin that climate change, not terrorism, is today's most serious global threat. Will the Taoiseach take this matter seriously? Since 2001 we have had warnings from British and US weather services that ignoring climate change will surely be the most costly of all possible choices for us and our children.

In 2003 the then Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Cullen, issued a report, Climate Change: Scenarios and Impacts for Ireland, which has not been responded to in the detail that is required. Today's newspaper refers to the shocking report of the European Environment Agency, Transport and Environment: Facing a Dilemma 2005. It reads like an arrest warrant for the Government. It states that greenhouse gas emissions in Ireland are up 130% over the past ten years while the EU average is just 22%. It states that 370,000 people die per annum in the EU as a result of air pollution alone and that in the past ten years Irish people have doubled the distance they travel, mainly by car, compared to other EU countries. In many EU countries people have reduced the car miles they are travelling.

Will the Taoiseach admit there has been a failure in terms of public transport investment and planning and the implementation of required building regulations? Will he indicate the action he will take in this regard? The €27 million in renewable energy grants are a welcome drop in the ocean. Who will pay the €1 billion plus bill that will accrue between 2008 and 2012 under the emissions trading scheme? Where is the national climate change strategy review that was promised before the end of last year and why has the Taoiseach continued to subsidise large polluters like CRH when, according to today's newspapers, he is penalising green industries like Ecocem?

The Government has not said — it has been stated frequently in England — who will pay for the flood protection that is required. In last Friday's edition of The Irish Times it was stated that the Taoiseach’s constituency, and quite a number of others, will be under water by the end of this century due to the predicted 6 m rise in sea level. That will signal the end of Dublin, Belfast, Waterford and Cork, in addition to a number of other areas. Will the Taoiseach put in place contingency plans for that and will he radically address the change in policy the Government needs to make if we are to have any hope of survival in the years to come, as a country and a planet?

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If we are not shot, we will drown.

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That is right.

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I think Deputy Sargent will acknowledge and accept that the biggest issue we face is to make sure we get the correct balance in our country between economic growth and prospects——

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The problem is the Government has not gone far enough.

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Will the Deputy listen? He should calm down.

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Deputy Ryan's leader has asked a question and the Taoiseach should be allowed to reply.

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Go for a ride on the bicycle.

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The Deputy may laugh.

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The most important thing we can do is try to get the right balance between our economic competitiveness as a modern economy and our environmental responsibilities. That is the crucial issue on which we have been working as we have been growing as a country. We have effectively doubled the entire economy in the past nine years.

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Who pays the bills?

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We have trebled the economy since the late 1980s. We have to continually work and strive to achieve that balance. We have to take account of all the sectors. I do not fundamentally disagree with the points made by Deputy Sargent in that they are crucial issues for the future, but they cannot be dealt with at the expense of crucial industries that generate huge economic activity and create significant employment. We have to try to work——

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Pay money to Fianna Fáil.

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No, it is not a question of them supporting Fianna Fáil.

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The Taoiseach is not rewarding the people who have done the work already——

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Deputy Boyle should allow the Taoiseach to speak without interruption.

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If 2 million people are working and we are trying to build 80,000 houses a year——

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You can flood them now.

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——if we are trying to develop our infrastructure it has to be done in a balanced way.

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What about those businesses if the Gulf Stream switches off?

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

The Chair will have to take action if Deputy Ryan persists in interrupting.

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I want to hear the Taoiseach's reply.

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Will the Deputy tell his people to shut up.

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How will the Taoiseach balance the economy to ensure the future of the planet?

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Does Deputy Ryan want to leave the House? That is what will happen if he does not stop interrupting.

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In reply to Deputy Sargent's question on the climate change strategy, the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government will publish shortly the review of the national climate change strategy which will take stock of all the developments since 2000. He will also propose additional measures for the country to cost effectively meet its target for the purpose of the Kyoto Protocol. Existing and potential new measures to reduce transport emissions will be addressed in the review process. I cannot give the Deputy an exact date for publication of these proposals but I understand the information will be available shortly.

On the emissions trading for the next round, we will announce within a day or two, if not today, the allocations for the sectors concerned for the period 2008 to 2012. Other issues such as VRT, biofuels — the Minister referred to the €27 million to be made available — transport emissions and air quality are vitally important. Nobody is arguing against them and the Minister will set out our position on these.

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They have doubled again.

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Deputy Sargent also asked about the actions to curb greenhouse gas emissions from transport, proposed changes to planning laws and other legislative measures on building control standards. I hope he will acknowledge that in the latest planning and development legislation, we fundamentally took account of the interests of all the sectors. One cannot just take account of one or two sectors, one has to take a balanced view of these issues. If we did not do so, I would be answering questions from Deputy Sargent about high unemployment and other issues.

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The Taoiseach is obliged to do so.

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It is estimated that we will reduce greenhouse gas emissions by about 1 million tonnes of CO2 in the next decade and there will be a 41% reduction on projected emissions.

This is without factoring in the additional investment and benefits which we believe will arise from the significant investment, of almost €35 billion in today's prices, being made in Transport 21.

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I fear the Taoiseach needs a serious wake-up call on climate change. Energy is the defining issue of our age. I remind the Taoiseach we are talking about the future of mankind rather than about balance. There is no balance in the Taoiseach's approach. JamesLovelock predicts that by the end of this century the earth will be able to support only 1 billion people; therefore 5 billion will die. I ask for some balance when faced with this scenario. I wonder what the history books will record about the Taoiseach, Bertie Ahern, and the seriousness with which he dealt with this issue. There are children in the Visitors Gallery. The cars used by the Taoiseach and members of the Cabinet do not run on biofuel so I question how serious he is about it. Is the Taoiseach in agreement with other EU leaders who stated cuts in greenhouse gas emissions of between 60% and 80% will be required? The Kyoto Protocol is letting the Taoiseach off the leash to create another 13% of emissions above the 1990 levels. Does he agree that cuts of between 60% to 80% are required and is he serious about it? Has he informed the other leaders he is in agreement with them? Will the Taoiseach face his Cabinet colleagues with the scenario of ecological genocide unless we radically change our whole transport policy and our level of greenhouse gas emissions?

It is a question of different methods of employment. Those who do not produce greenhouse gas emissions should be encouraged. Will the Taoiseach encourage that type of industry and penalise the polluter? Will he reward those who are efficient in terms of their energy use and introduce fiscal measures to do so? This is the kind of balance we mean. I ask for that kind of balance and the reversal of the capital investment programme for transport which has closed down freight, given more roads but not enough public transport and resulted in the bad planning which has people commuting over 50 miles a day.

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I remind the Minister, Deputy Cullen, that it is true.

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I will do my best to answer the Deputy's questions which I take seriously. I am not responsible for the planet, as the Deputy is aware.

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He is responsible for this bit of it.

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Neither am I responsible for everything that will have happened by the end of the century. I will not be involved in economic genocide either.

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John O'Donoghue Mr. O’Donoghue Fianna Fáil

Star wars.

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It is crucially important to try to achieve good balance——

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What is the Government doing in terms of the environment? Where is the balance?

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

I remind Deputy Boyle that his leader took approximately six minutes when he was entitled to three. The Deputy must not frustrate a reply from Government.

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He was not interrupted. It was raiméis.

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The Government has been endeavouring to have policies that can deal sensibly with the issues of climate change, emissions and air quality. If the Deputies opposite honestly believe — perhaps they do — that one can do all these things and ignore economic, business and demographic realities—

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It is the Taoiseach who is ignoring them.

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With the greatest respect, the policies being put forward by Deputy Sargent are not policies being suggested by any other Green Party in Europe.

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This is rubbish. Every scientist in the world has recommended cuts of between 60% and 80%.

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I did not say that scientists were not talking about these issues.

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Rory O'Hanlon An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Deputy Eamon Ryan is not the leader of his party.

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They have three leaders today.

None of these issues can be achieved solely by means of the purest version of the world of balance referred to by the Green Party, and nobody is trying to do that. I have explained the Government's policy to the Deputy. Air quality is excellent in this country. The Deputy referred to many reports and I expected him to refer to the Environmental Protection Agency which concluded that as regards pollutants, air quality in this country complies with all the air quality standards in force. These are significant achievements.

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The Government has faced a fine of more than €1 billion and who is paying?

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It is a lot of hot air.

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Maintaining the standard is a priority so this country can engage constructively with its EU partners. Ireland has decreased its greenhouse gas emissions such as carbon dioxide in the transport sector in particular and significant resources have been put into railways and roads in order to move traffic——

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This is being achieved despite a significant increase in population. If the Green Party was to acknowledge some of these issues, I could take it seriously.

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