On the latest developments on electronic voting, two Ministers persisted with the purchase of equipment costing €52 million that has never been used in a general or local election. That is €52 million of taxpayers' money down the drain in one of the biggest examples of waste by this Government.

It is worth recalling that a number of experts outside this House warned both former Ministers with this responsibility, Deputies Noel Dempsey and Cullen, about the disastrous road on which they were embarked, but they dismissed and ignored that advice. They ignored the request for an all-party committee that warned that this would be the logical conclusion of where they were going. Then the Minister, Deputy Noel Dempsey, thought up the bright idea and his successor, Deputy Cullen, insisted on implementing it, no matter what the objections or reservations on this side of the House and no matter what the expert evidence submitted by people outside this House.

After wasting €52 million of taxpayers' money, we now find it is costing us just short of €700,000 per annum to store these machines the present Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Roche, has said will not be used in the next general election. That same Minister has mooted the idea of storing these machines centrally and has found out that we will have to pay a ransom of millions to buy out the leases committed to for the storage of machines we will never use. In County Monaghan, the returning officer has entered into a lease for 25 years at €25,865 per annum, although the lifetime of the machine is 20 years.

Very bright.

What will the Taoiseach do about this mess? Will he abandon this crazy scheme and see if he can find anybody gullible enough anywhere in the western world to take the machines off his hands? Does the Taoiseach agree with the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government that they will not be used in the next general election? Does he agree that nothing symbolises the incompetence and waste of this Government like the debacle of e-voting?

There are a number of points. People used the machines in the previous general election. There was no controversy leading up to the election about using electronic voting. In fact, the demonstrations that were held for young and old alike, in urban and rural areas, were highly successful and the acceptance rate of the machines in the election was high among those who used them.

People subsequently expressed some views about the speed and the process of how the voting should be done on a slower basis. It was long after that political controversy raged on this issue, when would-be experts — I do not know if they are experts — raised issues about this. Following that, it was agreed that we would set up a Commission on Electronic Voting, which has done a considerable amount of work and research analysing both the hardware and the software and which is due to report this summer.

Voting is a fundamental part of a democracy. If there is not agreement and if people who were in favour of electronic voting have subsequently changed their minds or have become convinced that, unlike the rest of the world, we should have a paper trail or that perhaps we still want to use pens and pencils to vote when the rest of world is moving on——

They do so in every part of the world.

Transparency.

Allow the Taoiseach without interruption.

——we must tread carefully on that.

On concerns about how the machines are stored, the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government is of the view that it would be much cheaper and cost effective if they were stored centrally, given some of the leases that people have taken to budget for these issues.

I have stated that, in the absence of political agreement on this issue, we cannot use them in the next general election. We must wait for the report to be published. I still hold the view it is a pity that the country that has continually the highest rate of software exports in the world is refusing to use electronic voting, even when we have gone through an international process resulting in using a company that is held in high regard and does not have a difficulty in other democracies.

Different systems.

For the few million people in our country, I certainly regret that we are not moving down this road quickly enough. A vast democracy like India, with 600 million voting, can use it. It is difficult to explain internationally how we, the world's greatest exporters of software, have a difficulty and still want to use pens and pencils, or chalk, or crayons when we want to vote.

One can count the papers. One cannot count the other way.

That is a sad occasion but, as with many issues in this country, we will cop on and move on.

The Taoiseach needs to cop on too.

At €52 million, cop on is right.

One thing the Taoiseach has managed up to now differently from his Ministers is not to convey arrogant dismissiveness of the views of others, but he now seems to be venturing into that and demonstrating lack of sure-footedness in other areas as well. The Commission on Electronic Voting issued a report that was damning in its criticism of the system the Taoiseach now seeks to give the impression was only objected to by the Opposition. While he dismisses so-called experts, those so-called experts were vindicated. They, like this party, opposed the system from the very beginning, explained why, relied on evidence from experts and, unlike this Government which is out of touch, did not dismiss them out of hand.

The Taoiseach is interested only in the Government saving face on this debacle while taxpayers are interested only in saving money. He wasted €52 million of taxpayers' money. He is paying almost €700,000 to store the machines. We now find that we will have to pay millions to buy out the storage leases for machines that we will never use.

I ask the Taoiseach again whether we will use them in the next general election because while his answer was that he agreed with his Minister that we will not use them, he added that we must wait for the report from the commission. Are we or are we not going to use them? By the time the editors get to work and finesse that English, it will be qualified. Can we have a "yes" or "no"? Are we going to use them in the next election or not?

Deputy Rabbitte's time has concluded.

When will the Government move to end, and cut its losses on, this issue? Nothing the Taoiseach has done symbolises more the waste and incompetence associated with his decision making than this issue. Did anybody ever go into one of the Taoiseach's clinics over the past ten years and ask for electronic voting? What is the point in comparisons with other democracies with first-past-the-post systems? This system was examined by experts and found wanting. That is the position and there is no point saying that if only X and Y had happened, we could have proceeded with it. What will the Taoiseach do about it now? Is there any prospect of selling the machines to anyone? Will we pay a ransom to people for leases to store machines that are worthless?

I ask Deputy Rabbitte to give way to the Taoiseach.

I have answered Deputy Rabbitte but I will answer him again. Based on the fact that the general election is next year, I have stated on many occasions that we cannot use them next year. I hope that is clear enough.

I understand the Commission on Electronic Voting has carried out detailed examinations, including speaking to international experts, and is to report on that. I have not seen that report and I await it. I do not think that will change the position for next year.

I do not accept what Deputy Rabbitte seemed to imply, if not state clearly, about the company — the editor will have to work out what he meant. Is he saying this company is flawed?

I am saying the Government is flawed.

Is he saying this company has sold this equipment, as it has in many countries, on some basis that it was not satisfactory for electronic voting? Is he questioning the facts on the countries in which these machines were used, that there was something wrong with the democratic vote in these countries? Is he questioning the credibility, expertise and technological ability of these people to provide the machines?

The head messenger would not have bought them.

Does the Deputy know this company, which invested tens of millions of euro in its product, is selling flawed equipment? If so, he should say that to the company because there is no point in saying it to me.

Why were the machines accepted?

Did the Taoiseach get a receipt?

The company has been approved in many countries and it has demonstrated credibility in democratic votes in this country as well.

With a caveat entered.

If we cannot agree on this, it is a pity.

Does the Taoiseach think his Minister has done a good job?

Thankfully, this is a democracy and I am entitled to my view. It is a pity that if one votes electronically, one should also have to get a bit of paper out.

There is nothing wrong with a pen and paper.

Every time somebody uses this technology, he or she does not need a hard copy.

They are called ATMs.

There is not much point in having technology, if one goes that route. If that is the Irish solution to electronic voting in 2006, God help our ability to stay strong on software.

That sounds like a whinge. It is a pity €50 million was spent on it.