Currently many primary school teachers are clearing up after a hectic day trying to teach in overcrowded classrooms. The Taoiseach may have heard the appalling reports from INTO teachers involved in the large meetings about the number of children in primary school classrooms around the country. In Wicklow for example, 29% of children in primary schools are in classes of over 30, in Meath the figure is 31%, in Dún Laoghaire the figure is34%, in Kildare it is 34%, in Kilkenny it is 30%, in Louth it is 30% and in my area it is a disgraceful 37%. The INTO has worked out that involves eight minutes teacher time per day for each junior infant. The Minister for Education and Science is sitting beside the Taoiseach giving him as many details hopefully as he needs. He said in the programme for Government five years ago that over the following five years his Government would "ensure that the average class size of classes for children under 9 will be below the international best-practice guideline of 20:1". There is a hell of a difference between 20:1 and over 30:1.

The situation is worse in reality because there are waiting lists in many schools, for example, in my area a parent told me there are 116 on the list to which she was invited to add her child's name, for nine places. I heard of another list of 180 for 80 places, a list of 100 names for 54 places, and in a secondary school of 400 of a list for 280 places. Classroom size is part of a much bigger failure by the Government. As we approach the end of this Government's term in office will the Taoiseach accept the reality that his Government has failed to implement the promise made in the programme for Government and apologise? Will he leave us to judge the Government on that or will the Government put the money aside to employ the teachers, fund the colleges and erect the new buildings required to meet a basic commitment in the programme for Government? The measurement included there is not impressive by international standards. Will the Taoiseach keep his promise?

The capital programme in education this year is €540 million and 1,500 schools will benefit from improvements in renovations and restructuring this year. That has been the case for several years. The Deputy must acknowledge that in the last number of years there have been more new schools built and more renovations than ever in the history of the State.

I am waiting for an answer.

There are 4,000 more primary teachers in our schools since 2002, 7,000 more than in 1997 and 1,200 of these posts were created last year. We have reduced the average primary school class to 24 pupils.

Is the answer to my question yes or no?

With the unprecedented increase in support staff there is now one teacher for every 17 primary school children, down from 22.

That is not a reduction in class size.

Children who need extra help get more support than ever. Deputy Sargent knows that the majority of the extra teachers hired in recent years have, rightly, been aimed at support for children with special needs, those in disadvantaged areas and those who need help with English. We could have taken teachers across the board and reduced the pupil teacher ratio but we have employed teachers for those with special needs or in disadvantaged areas to make sure all our children in all our schools have these teachers.

It is the chestnut season again.

These teachers have not only made an immeasurable difference to the lives of these children but they also provide vital back-up for the classroom teachers. I make no apologies for putting extra resources into those who need them most. It was the right thing to do.

The Taoiseach is reading the answer the Minister for Education and Science gave earlier.

If we had put these extra teachers into the classrooms rather than priority areas they would have done much to reduce the class sizes in our school.

There is a surplus of €2 billion.

If we had put the 7,000 teachers into the classrooms that would have caused a significant drop in the pupil teacher ratio. However, we did not do that but aimed overwhelmingly to help people with special needs and disabilities. We would not have been able to put the necessary resources into special education, disadvantaged children and language support. Now that these priorities have been largely addressed extra teachers have been provided in the current year to reduce class sizes and provision is being made for a further 800 primary teachers in the next academic year. The average class size nationally has been reduced from 27 to 24.

It has not.

Where there are large class sizes such as the Deputy mentioned it is because a decision has been taken at local level to use the teaching resources to have smaller numbers in other classes, which I understand. A school might have one class of 35 and another of 21. Many schools have opted to do that.

I still do not have an answer.

I think Deputy Sargent would acknowledge that the building programme, which was very small and is now over €500 million a year, is making a significant improvement with new schools, renovation work and extensions across the country. He must also acknowledge that the 7,000 extra teachers have made a significant difference to the lives of people with special needs and disabilities.

This is a priority for the Green Party but is clearly not one for the Government. The Government wrote in the programme for Government that it would ensure average class sizes for children under nine would be below 20:1 by the time it left office. It will not do that. I suppose that is the best we can hope for in the way of a straight answer.

Disadvantaged children also suffer. The Taoiseach cannot hide behind them as a reason for his failure here. They get one to one attention for half an hour and are then abandoned back into a class.

Disadvantaged children have smaller classes.

The Minister for Education and Science can nod and tut-tut all she likes but Ireland is the only country in Europe where teachers must cope with more than 30 pupils in a classroom. That is a disgrace when compared with Greece which has an average of 18; Portugal, 16; Latvia, 17; Lithuania, 15, and in impoverished Sri Lanka, where our charities send money, there are only 20 pupils to a class and we regard the people there as needing our help.

Here, in the Taoiseach's country, the Government has a surplus of over €2 billion. We have costed the price of an extra 1,000 teachers which would reduce classes to 20 pupils, at €39 million. That amounts to 20 cent per day per pupil——

That is a big sum, Deputy Sargent should be careful.

It is a big sum for the Minister for Transport who knows all about small bits of money. He spent €60 million on electronic voting, only small change. Here is small change, 20 cent per pupil per day for the basic right of a classroom of 20 pupils.

Deputy Sargent should put that 20 cent piece back into his pocket.

That is what we are seeking. Is the Taoiseach going to deny children that basic right? How does he excuse such behaviour?

There is no defence.

Deputy Sargent should not get excited. The reality——

The children——

The Deputy has every right to get excited.

It is clear the Taoiseach does not get excited about education.

I ask Deputies to allow the Taoiseach to continue, without interruption.

Well done, a Cheann Comhairle.

There should be no campaign to frustrate any Minister from answering questions.

Deputy Sargent is correct in respect of one matter and wrong with regard to the others. If the 4,000 teachers had been put into normal classes——

By the——

Deputy Sargent should stop asking questions and then interrupting when I am trying to answer them.

The Taoiseach is changing the subject.

The Deputy asked about——

If the 4,000 teachers to whom I referred had, since 2002, been placed into mainstream classes, the ratio would have been reduced to 20:1. The case was well made that disadvantaged children and those with disabilities should be placed in smaller classes. Many such classes contain 15 or fewer pupils. Was it right to give people with fewer chances — namely, those who are disadvantaged, those who have difficulties at home or those with disabilities or learning difficulties — access to a better ratio than the norm? The judgment of the Government was that it would be better to place virtually all of the teachers to whom I refer, over a number of years, into classes for disabled and disadvantaged children, thereby reducing the ratio to 12:1, 13:1, 14:1 and 15:1 and leaving that ratio relating to mainstream classes at a higher level. I make no apologies for doing that.

When we achieved the target ratio in respect of disadvantaged and special needs teachers and provided thousands of classroom assistants last year, we then decided to put in place 1,200 additional teachers — 800 in primary schools and 400 in secondary schools — to reduce class sizes and teach languages. That was the right way to proceed. Next year, a further 800 will be appointed to reduce the ratio further. To do it the other way around would have made the figures look good. I am sure Deputies would accuse me of massaging the figures.

And rightly so.

Was it not better to look after the disadvantaged——

The Government should have done it all.

We could not do it all.

It was not possible to do it all.

Why not? There was a surplus of €2 billion.

There were some noble aspirations.

We would not have been able to produce——

Is the Taoiseach saying the Government is incompetent?

Deputy Gogarty will have to leave the House if he continues to interrupt.

Will the Green Party Members stop interrupting?

Deputy Gogarty is the one who called special needs a hoary chestnut.

Deputy Sargent should control the five Members who represent his party.

There are only five of them but the Taoiseach cannot control them.

It would not have been possible to take on 6,000. We prioritised the children——

The Deputies opposite should listen.

What about this document I have in my possession?

The Deputy showed me a letter last week that turned out to be bogus. He should not show me another bogus document.

The document I have in my possession is a copy of the programme for Government.

I will ask the Deputy to leave the House if he does not stop interrupting.

We put in place the teachers to deal with disadvantaged children. If Deputy Sargent wants to be honest——

The Taoiseach should stop saying that the Deputy is dishonest.

——he should state that he did not agree with that decision.

What about the promise in this document, the programme for Government?

Deputy Sargent, there is a longstanding rule that documents are not displayed in the House. It is bad enough that the Deputy displayed it when he was on his feet. I will not tolerate the Deputy interrupting other Members who have been called to speak and I will ask him to leave the House.

I am saying nothing. I am listening and I am waiting for an answer.

The Deputy should remain quiet. If he interrupts once more, out he will go.

The Ceann Comhairle is like the Minister for Defence, Deputy O'Dea, he shoots from the hip.

I am listening.

What is the offensive document to which the Ceann Comhairle referred?

It is an unruly class today.

The Taoiseach cannot control the class.

That document is full of lies, it should not be shown anywhere.

It is a danger to young people because it is so full of lies.

How would the Taoiseach control a class of 24?

There are only five Green Party Members.

It appears that I am the only one listening to the Taoiseach, but he should proceed in any event.

The Taoiseach should be allowed to give his excuse to the headmaster.

I want to give Deputy Sargent the answer to his question. He asked about class sizes relating to disadvantaged children and slow learners.

Those opposite are slow learners.

The ratio for special needs classes and those relating to autism is 5:1 or 6:1 and not 15:1. We put in place resources to bring the ratio relating to these classes right down. We did not make a promise in that regard but it was the right thing to do. We reduced class sizes by providing classroom assistants and full-time teachers. The ratio in every school in the country with special needs classes is 5:1. That is a major achievement of which anyone would be proud. I am certainly proud of it.

The Government has not kept its promise.

That concludes Leaders' Questions. We spent almost 60 minutes on Leaders' Questions, for which only 21 minutes are allotted.

The Ceann Comhairle managed Leaders' Questions very badly today.

It is not the intention of the Chair that this should continue. It appears that the only way to preserve order during Leaders' Questions, is to ask Members who continually interrupt to leave.