I wish to ask the Taoiseach about a matter that has been raised by Deputy Enright and others on a number of occasions, which was the subject of a "Prime Time" programme last week. I refer to the attitude of the Government towards accepting responsibility for what happened to a number of children in day primary schools throughout the country. The Taoiseach will be aware of Louise O'Keeffe, who lost her case — in respect of which a sum of €500,000 in costs is pending — in the High Court. The view is that this is a public interest case and that the State should not pursue Ms O'Keeffe for costs. Will the Taoiseach clarify the position in this regard?

The Government wrote a letter advising victims that the Department of Education and Science has no responsibility in this matter and that they should pursue boards of management. Under the Constitution, the State has a duty to provide for people's education. In addition, teachers are paid out of the public purse and the Department of Education and Science sets down the curriculum, pays capitation grants and provides buildings. Do the Taoiseach and the Government agree with the assertion by the Minister for Education and Science and her Department that they will not accept responsibility for what happens to children in primary schools throughout the country? Do the Taoiseach and the Government agree with the contents of the letter that was sent? If they do, they are abdicating responsibility completely. If they do not, are they prepared to have it withdrawn and have some other system devised under which justice would be done and responsibility accepted?

As the Deputy is aware, I cannot comment on the details of the O'Keeffe case, which has been appealed to the Supreme Court. On the costs relating to the previous case, I made it clear last March that the Government had asked the State Claims Agency, the statutory body that deals with legal fees, to approach the issue of costs in a measured and sensitive way. The agency informed Ms O'Keeffe's solicitor at that time and on the record, that while the same arrangements would have to be made in respect of costs, there was no question whatsoever of her losing her house, which was the issue. Her solicitor informed the agency that she intended to appeal the case to the Supreme Court and it was not possible to make a deal with her on the previous costs. In any event, the High Court placed a stay on the costs order pending the determination of the Supreme Court appeal.

I have stated on many occasions that I sympathise greatly with those who were subjected to abuse in our schools and in places in which they should have felt safe and protected. Child abuse, regardless of where it occurs, is devastating and victims always carry a great deal of emotional pain. There is no doubt that a huge wrong was done to young children in our schools in the past. While I feel deeply sorry for the victims, the courts have found that the State was not liable in this regard. A number of cases have been heard in the courts.

A little sympathy does not go very far.

Our education system has long been structured on the basis that schools are sponsored by religious and other patrons and run by local management on their behalf. Since the enactment of the relevant legislation, legal responsibility in this regard is vested in boards of management. The courts found in four separate cases that the Department of Education and Science was not liable for abuse that occurred in schools. I accept that the State is not legally responsible for what happened. That does not make matters any less awful for the people concerned, but the legal issue involved here is that the Department is not responsible.

The Taoiseach is washing his hands of it.

Do I take it the Government, which has been led by the Taoiseach for the past ten years, does not accept responsibility for sexual abuse of children in day schools throughout the country? Do I understand that evidence produced last week of a letter submitted to the Department of Education and Science, which clearly indicated abuse by a teacher, was not dealt with and that no action was taken? I will ask the Taoiseach again whether he agrees with the letter that was sent to victims advising them that the Government has no responsibility in respect of this matter and that they should sue boards of management. Such boards are comprised of approximately 20,000 volunteers and lay people. Why would anybody want to serve on a board of management if he or she would be likely to be sued in circumstances of this sort? Is it not a fact that, under the Constitution, the Government must provide for people's education and that, for example, welfare officers, who have a role to play in ensuring children attend school, are part of the State machinery?

Does he agree the letter sent out is in accordance with the Government views? How can he stand here, as head of Government, and state that all responsibility is abdicated for children who were abused in day schools throughout the land?

He apologised, in respect of the institutions arising from the Residential Institutions Redress Board, to all those victims who were abused in institutions. Does he now apologise to all of those victims who were abused in day schools? Let me hear it again from the Taoiseach, as head of Government, that Fianna Fáil and the Progressive Democrats will not accept any responsibility for the sexual abuse of children in day schools, of which the Department of Education and Science was notified officially and took no action. If that is the case, we have come to a new low where he will not even accept any moral responsibility for an outrage that happened in so many cases throughout the land.

There are a number of points. The letter sent is based on legal advice of the legal position.

It is on behalf of the Government.

It is the legal position, that is the point.

It is on behalf of his Government.

Deputy Kenny asked me to clarify the position. That is the legal position.

That makes it worse.

Hide behind it.

One does not hide behind the law.

That is the cover.

One does not hide behind the law; one quotes the law.

It is all right if you change it.

Allow the Taoiseach without interruption, please.

If cases are fought in court, one does not ignore that. If one is in this office, one does not ignore cases fought in the court and just make up one's own mind. That is not what the Taoiseach does.

I agree. What will the Taoiseach do about it?

The Taoiseach without interruption, please.

What will he do about it?

Deputy Kenny, please, you had your opportunity.

It is like signing a blank cheque.

I said I sympathise greatly with those who have been subjected to abuse.

Weasel words.

Deputy Kenny is correct. I apologised to those who were in institutions because in the institutions the State had a full obligation. I have never stopped taking criticism from the Opposition in this House for that matter, but that is neither here nor there.

Boards of management are not sued as individuals but as boards of management, and they have indemnity insurance on that issue, which has been made quite clear. While members of boards have a responsibility to ensure procedures are in place to keep their pupils safe and to investigate any allegations of abuse, they are not personally liable for claims against the school.

Boards of management are a corporate entity and can be sued. However, the Education Act provides that the individual members who serve and who do a good job on boards, have protection. In addition, boards are required to have insurance policies to cover this. That is the legal position.

It is important that there is local responsibility and vigilance, but of course this does not mean volunteer members of boards being exposed to claims, which is the concern that individuals would have.

Is it all about money?

The Minister does not believe this issue will stop people from volunteering to participate in boards. The head of the Catholic Primary School Managers' Association has also publicly assured board members that they are protected by insurance and, therefore, I do not want to get into the position of scaremongering.

What about the victims?

Allow the Taoiseach.

The position is that in the entire history of the State primary schools have been State aided as distinct from State run. The Catholic Church and other churches which have set up the vast majority of our primary schools continue to act as their patrons. Other patrons include those of Protestant, Jewish and Muslim faiths, and the patron bodies from Gaelscoileanna and Educate Together schools. That is the way our school system is set up.

The enactment of the Education Act ten years ago gave statutory expression to the status of the existing relationships between the Minister, the patron and board of management into primary legislation, and it is the school's management, rather than the Department, that recruits and employs teachers and other staff. That is the legal position and that is why the cases have been dealt with by the courts on that basis.

A cop out.