That is a message of defeat. We know the problem in getting convictions arises because the associates of criminals do not co-operate. Some do so out of choice and some because they are afraid. We know there is a culture of intimidation and fear associated with these gangs, but that is not a new problem. It was encountered in the United States and Italy when the authorities in those countries dealt with the Mafia. The problem was dealt with by the introduction of an effective witness protection scheme.

There is no point in the Taoiseach describing the problem to us when he has presided over it for ten years. We need a sense of what the solution is. Will the Taoiseach put a witness protection scheme on a statutory basis and make it effective? I accept that a witness protection scheme in a country like Ireland must be different from a scheme in a larger jurisdiction such as the United States. Will the Taoiseach make membership of a criminal gang a crime so the Garda has a different basis on which to pursue these gangs effectively?

The Taoiseach said that he did not want to simplify the problem but he was happy to simplify it ten years ago when he talked about zero tolerance. It is not a simple problem, I acknowledge that, but after ten years of presiding over 140 gun murders with only one out of every six cases ending with a conviction, in circumstances where in 58 cases the Garda know the perpetrators but could only convict 19 of them. What are the solutions? I will put forward some solutions, but what are the Taoiseach's solutions? Will this situation be allowed to continue? Will the Taoiseach simply say there is nothing we can do, as people are afraid to give evidence because they are being intimidated and so on?

Across the range of crimes the Garda detection figures have risen substantially. Long and tougher sentencing, more manpower and better resources is allowing the Garda to deal with the issues, particularly in the area of gun crime. Deputy Gilmore please do not ask me to do what is done in the United States, because if I were to suggest any of the measures taken in the United States, he would not support me.

The Taoiseach did.

Zero tolerance.

The witness protection scheme

Please do no simplify it. The Deputy knows if you hold somebody for ten years, which is not unreasonable in the US, without a prosecution——

Or in New York, it is no problem.

The Ceann Comhairle is blushing

On the question of the witness protection scheme, the Minister met the Garda Commissioner to discuss this yesterday. The scheme is ten years in existence. It is under the direct operational control and administration of the Garda Commissioner, in response to attempts by criminal and other groups to prevent the normal functioning of the criminal justice system. A review of that scheme was completed just short of two years ago. Certain enhancements were made in its operation and they have been implemented. For obvious reasons it is not the practice to comment on the details of the operation of the scheme and I will not do that, but as recently as yesterday, it was looked at again. The real issue is the willingness of witnesses to participate and not the basis of the statutory scheme. Quite frankly, the Garda Commissioner and senior management do not believe that changing the basis of the scheme would be of help. Some Deputies may believe it would but I am stating the factual position. Deputy Gilmore is correct that the Garda by and large know who is involved in these groups and gangs, but we live in a democracy where people have constitutional rights, for example to remain silent. During the term of the last Government we brought in very severe and tough measures that were within the limits we thought were reasonably safe.

The Garda has asked the Government to deliver the schemes I mentioned at the start and the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform is proceeding with the automated number plate recognition system, the automated fingerprint identification system, the automated ballistic identification system and moving administrative staff to areas where it frees up numbers. These are practical measures which aid the Garda and they must be viewed in the knowledge that the Garda has the capacity to purchase 1,400 vehicles a year. We are in a position to be able to give the Garda all the things for which it has asked.