I wish to raise a different law enforcement issue. Last Wednesday, my Labour Party colleague, Deputy Broughan, asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform for the numbers of warrants which have been issued by the courts for the arrest of persons throughout the country. The reply he received is amazing. According to the reply Deputy Broughan received there are 111,453 warrants outstanding. That number is equivalent to the population of a large five seat constituency. That is the number of warrants for arrest that have been issued by the courts that have not yet been executed. I want in particular to focus on two of those categories. The first is bench warrants, which are normally issued for people who do not turn up in court, in many cases defendants and those on bail. Some 36,000 warrants issued by the courts for the arrest of people who have not shown up in courts have not yet been executed.

The House will recall that Donna Cleary was the unfortunate woman who was shot through the window of her own home. She was killed by a man for whom a bench warrant had been issued but who had not been arrested. In my constituency, when two gardaí were killed by a speeding car, one of the young men in the car that ran into the gardaí had a bench warrant issued against him but he had not been arrested. Some 36,000 bench warrants have been issued for the arrest of people who do not show up in courts but these people have not been arrested.

Even more seriously perhaps, almost 4,000 committal warrants have been issued by the courts but the people involved have not been arrested. Committal warrants are issued where somebody has been convicted by a court of an offence and a judge has decided that person should be in prison. In other words, almost 4,000 people are out there, convicted of offences by the courts, with judges having decided they should be in prison, but they have not yet been arrested.

Does the Taoiseach agree this demonstrates a serious problem in the criminal justice system? Is there some explanation for this number of warrants, which appears to be increasing? The Comptroller and Auditor General in his report last year commented on the fact that the number of warrants not being executed is increasing by approximately 25% per year. It is a problem that appears to be on the increase. I would like an explanation as to why these people are not being arrested. Will the Taoiseach tell the House what will be done to improve the situation?

Obviously, I will not dispute the figures provided in reply to a parliamentary question. The Deputy stated that the total figure for warrants is approximately 111,000, including some 36,000 bench warrants. I regularly see figures relating to the number of people who evade warrants on a weekly basis, which is a very small number. With regard to the Deputy's figures, I do not know how the question was categorised and have not read the details. Nonetheless, many people who are called and do not turn up on a particular day, for one reason or another, will turn up within a very short period, perhaps the following day or week or at the next court sitting.

If I understand the Deputy's point, we want to know the actual figure for people who entirely evade the judicial system or criminal justice system and do not turn up when a warrant is issued. Some of the cases relate to people for whom a warrant was issued and they either forgot about it or were sick and could not attend court, but later turned up.

I am not sure if the reply to the parliamentary question details the actual figure over a given court session for people who have evaded the system. That is the key figure, and it is not 36,000. During the entire 30-year period of the Troubles in the North, the number of outstanding warrants relating to people who did not turn up was approximately 20 — some of their names are well known to gardaí. While I do not know the total figure for people who have evaded the system, I imagine it is small.

The Criminal Justice Act 2006 introduced a comprehensive package of measures enhancing the powers of the Garda with regard to improving the criminal justice system. Included in that legislation were the powers to deal with anyone who infringes on or evades the law in any circumstances. If I recall the debate on that Bill, the figure was not very significant. While I do not know the figure, it will be easy to get for the Deputy. As part of those powers, we broadened the range of sentences, provided for alternatives to custodial sentences and introduced restriction on movement orders and a new system of fixed charges for public order offences, particularly for reoffenders or those who tried to evade justice. We increased penalties relating to various categories of people who were ongoing offenders.

To answer the Deputy's question on what action we are taking, the Criminal Justice Acts of 2006 and 2007, with the DNA legislation which, if it is not before the House, will be published shortly, are measures which will deal with people who defy bench warrants or the law.

I note the Taoiseach finds it difficult to believe the figures, for which I do not blame him. However, the figures on which I rely were provided in response to a parliamentary question. That reply from the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform stated: "The number of bench warrants, penal warrants and committal warrants which were recorded on the PULSE system as being on hand on 25 November 2007".

It is not the first time the problem has arisen, if not the scale of the problem. The Comptroller and Auditor General in his report states "unexecuted bench warrants are still increasing at an annual rate of about a quarter of the number issued". Indeed, the previous Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform introduced Operation Anvil, which was designed to address the problem of people who were at large despite bench warrants having issued against them. There is clearly a problem in this regard.

When the Criminal Justice Bill was before the House last year, the Labour Party through Deputy Howlin proposed that where warrants are issued for the arrest of people, there should be some system whereby when those people interface again with the State, whether through a social welfare office, FÁS office, HSE centre or other arm of the State, the Garda can be alerted to the fact they are out there. Such a system might operate through the use of PPS numbers or otherwise. The Government did not accept the proposal. Will the Taoiseach consider introducing some such measure? There is clearly a huge problem with people whom judges have decided should be arrested, either because they have been convicted of a crime and have not yet been arrested or because they have not appeared in court. A much more effective system is required than the one we appear to have at present.

Anything that tidies up the system would improve it. However, I do not want to give the impression that when bench warrants are issued, a significant proportion of those for whom they are issued do not turn up. From security briefings and from following Northern issues, I know they may not always turn up at the prescribed time but they do turn up.

I do not have the figure for those who are evading justice completely. The Garda Síochána and Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform view on this is that it is inevitable in any criminal justice system that at any given time there would be a significant number of warrants awaiting execution. It should be borne in mind that the vast majority of the outstanding warrants relate to financial penalties. Most of the figures relate to fines.

That is a separate issue.

It also applies to the bench warrants.

It is not the bench warrants; it is the penal warrants.

It is also the case that many individuals would be subject to multiple warrants, which the Deputy will know from the list.

I do not know the precise figure for the number of outstanding warrants that would be acceptable at any stage. Obviously, if there are 14,000 gardaí, there will be an increasing number of warrants. The last Garda Commissioner is on record as stating that steps need to be taken to reduce the number of outstanding warrants as much as is possible. I accept the Deputy's point that there must be a tidying up of the system. The Garda Commissioner stated that each regional commissioner had been directed to give priority to the issue and to examine the procedures in their areas for executing warrants. The Minister, Deputy Brian Lenihan, has taken a number of steps to deal with this issue. A genuine difficulty at the moment is that cases concerning the non-payment of fines clog up the system because gardaí must seek warrants to enforce their payment. There is an initial warrant therefore and a further warrant is required to enforce the payment. A pilot project is under way whereby outstanding fines have been pursued by an outside debt collection agency, rather than requiring gardaí to obtain warrants. That pilot project is proving to be very successful. The Department, in consultation with the Garda Síochána and the Courts Service, will take that matter forward. I am not sure in how many districts that pilot scheme is operating but if it is clearing up the system it should be extended.

There is a fines Bill before the House which, among other things, provides for the payment of fines by instalment. Anything which avoids the necessity of issuing a warrant should help to reduce pressure on the warrant system. The Minister is examining other legislative measures which might help to improve the efficiency of the fines collection system, particularly by reducing the amount of Garda time involved in the warrant process. I am told that is a considerable amount of time. Many gardaí are now on specialised duties such as the one we have just discussed. I will raise the question elsewhere but I still find it difficult to imagine that there are 36,000 outstanding bench warrants.

The figures are there.

Yes, but the point I am making is how many of those are multiple cases and how many of those people turn up? I am told that bench warrants continue to be issued for a large number of defaulters so they come into the total figure. I do not believe the figure is 36,000.