I am somewhat surprised at the figure the Taoiseach has just given us for his estimate of the amount that would be saved by a 3% payroll reduction across Departments, State agencies and local authorities. The Taoiseach has advised that would come to €250 million.

That is what it would be between now and the end of 2009.

For a year and a half that is crazy.

Is the Taoiseach referring to the period between now and the end of 2009?

We are starting the process now.

These figures do not add up.

They do add up.

The Taoiseach has told us the Government would save €1 billion in 2009. If the 3% payroll reduction only comes to €250 million between now and the end of 2009, where on earth is the €750 million for the remainder of 2009 and the remainder of the €190 million for 2008 to come from? That does not stack up. Even at the rate the Government is placing advertisements with television stations, newspapers etc., cutting advertisements and consultants and all the other headline grabbers in all these measures will not add up to €750 million in 2009 plus an extra €190 million in 2008. That does not stack up. If a 3% cut in payroll comes to €250 million, the rest of his figures are a fairytale.

I again ask the Taoiseach to tell us how much of the €1 billion in 2009 will be made up by the 3% cut in payroll so that we can have some assessment? Clearly the information will come out in dribs and drabs as individual Ministers make individual announcements and individual decisions are made in individual local authorities etc. In order to get a general assessment as to the impact on the overall public service of the 3% cut in payroll, I again ask the Taoiseach to give us the total figure for that in 2009 as compared with the €1 billion the Government plans to save in 2009.

I am referring to official documentation. Again I can confirm that the figure is €250 if my memory recall is correct.

From where will the other €750 million come?

The Department of Finance knows the figures in this regard and the impact of the savings.

Does the Taoiseach know?

The figure I gave the House is the correct figure. The €440 million savings we are seeking to provide for the remainder of this year have a full year effect in 2009. The present effect will last for six months during the remaining half of this year and will continue into 2009. I am being very clear with the House. It is not a question of dribs and drabs. I made it clear that on receiving the mid-year returns the Government would make decisions to seek to ensure we work within the expenditure limits we had set ourselves. We agreed to have a nine hour debate in the House, which is the right place for the debate. Rather than having it come out in dribs and drabs, the Ministers will come to the House tomorrow to outline what contribution can be made by individual Departments in respect of the efficiency savings that have been mentioned totalling approximately €240 million, the 3% payroll bill reduction we are seeking by 2009, and the various administrative and other savings that are being contemplated and upon which agreement and decisions have been made. It is a very clear position by Government.

This is just a phase in a process——

There is more to come.

——of engagement by Government across all Departments for the purpose of having a sustainable budgetary strategy going into 2009 that will address the issues we need to address. Apart from this contention that there was some effort to fritter away resources, let us remind ourselves that we have been paying to invest in a capital budget out of current budget surpluses year on year under this Administration and previous Administrations, which confirms there was not a frittering away of money. Money was being used from current budget surpluses for productive purposes to build up the capacity of the economy. The proof of that is that despite not having growth in the economy in 2008, the economy is 30% bigger than it was in 2002 precisely because during the years from 2003 to 2007 we used the current budget surpluses for the purposes, in the main, of providing a capital programme which is greatly enhanced.