Which of the treacherous 30 cuts and charges that were introduced in yesterday's budget is the Taoiseach most embarrassed by? Is it the 1% tax on the widow who takes a part-time cleaning job to supplement her pension? Is it the taking away of the medical card from old age pensioners? Is it the €100 charge that the parent of a sick child will now have to pay to attend accident and emergency or a hospital? Is it the €2,000 that the average middle income family will have to pay back to the Government in after-tax income as a result of yesterday's changes? Is it the €1,500 that the same hard-working family will have to pay in a registration fee when one of their children goes to college? Is it the cut in child benefit or the early childhood payment? Is it the increase in class sizes? Is it the fact that to date the only organisation to welcome the budget is the Construction Industry Federation?

Hear, hear.

That is not true.

Specifically, in respect of the withdrawal of the medical card from pensioners, I received a call this morning from a pensioner who was on VHI but qualified for the medical card when he turned 70 and stopped paying VHI. Can that pensioner get back into VHI now and, if so, what will it cost? What type of cover will the VHI provide to such a pensioner if he does manage to get back into it?

It is not a question of my being embarrassed by any of these measures, which are necessary in the interests——

The Taoiseach should be embarrassed.

These measures are necessary in the interests of trying to provide a sustainable public finance position for the country.

It is a nice mess the Taoiseach has got us into.

The Government made a bad deal with the doctors and it is making the public pay.

The Deputies speak out of both sides of their mouths.

If it is Deputy Gilmore's contention — it was certainly Deputy Bruton's contention last night — that there should not have been any tax-raising revenue provisions in the budget, what part of the expenditure programme would he cut by another €2 billion? That is what is required.

Hear, hear.

If it was also the case that he did not believe there were discretionary spends in the capital programme that should not have been deferred, what further €1 billion in cuts — making a total of €3 billion — would he estimate we could find in the public expenditure programme? If we were to move, as Deputy Bruton said, to a 5.5% deficit instead of the 6.5% deficit and if we were not to raise taxes, this would require another €2 billion of expenditure cuts.

There is no plan, none.

If the Fine Gael budget which has been outlined by its finance spokesperson is that we would have a 5.5% deficit and not raise any taxes——

The Deputies are speaking out of both sides of their mouths.

I want to make it clear——

The Government should tax the fat cats who caused this.

Let the Taoiseach finish.

I want to make it clear that if this is the Fine Gael position — it was their stated public position on the "Prime Time" programme last night — they are required to find another €5 billion in expenditure cuts to make that budget stick. That is the reality.

The Taoiseach can read out policy statements, but why does he not look for something from the banks?

Let the Taoiseach finish.

Those are the facts. Whether one is on the Opposition benches or the Government benches, two plus two is four, and you add the zeros later.

A Cheann Comhairle, the Taoiseach is——

He is on his own.

Enda cannot even get the people behind him to calm down. He has no leadership skills whatsoever.

The Taoiseach should be allowed to finish.

The Minister of State, Deputy Conor Lenihan, should not shout down his Taoiseach.

Deputy Gilmore decries all the methods of raising tax revenue. I do not believe it is the view of the Labour Party that we should cut expenditure further — I do not think that is its position. I have heard what Deputy Gilmore had to say in regard to some tax expenditures. We will debate those in the House and assess their impact, and at least we can have a debate that might make sense. However, the debate I am trying to have with the Opposition here does not make any sense because it is €5 billion out before it starts.

It will make a lot of sense to those whose medical cards will be cut. Health cuts hurt the old, the sick and the disabled. Is that right? Where did we hear it before?

With regard to the specific point raised by Deputy Gilmore, the medical card is available for GP services.

Willie will have an army with no barracks.

The VHI does not provide cover for GP services.

Some plans do.

It covers far more than GP services.

Let us be clear. That is not the situation.

It also covers accident and emergency and hospital charges.

It covers a lot more.

Excuse me——

Let the Taoiseach finish, please.

That is wrong.

The position is——

I am making the point and shouting me down will not change it.

This is Leaders' Questions.

He is wrong.

Shouting me down will not change it.

He is wrong.

It does not matter. The Deputy has no input to make on this.

With respect, I am not wrong. VHI does not cover GP services and the medical card does cover those services. Let me make it very clear, I very much regret the fact——

VHI covers €25——

Deputy Reilly should keep quiet. I will show him what he said in 2001.

Do that, by all means.

Deputy Reilly fought this. He is a hypocrite. He threatened to strike.

Order, please. Let the Taoiseach finish.

Just so we get the full flavour of consistency, as I wish to deal with Deputy Gilmore's substantive point——

Excuse me, I wish to make one thing clear. This is Leaders' Questions and the Taoiseach must be allowed to finish.

Deputy James Reilly, when he was chairman of the IMO's GP committee, condemned the Government's decision to offer medical cards to all pensioners over 70. His position was that it was not acceptable. Now, of course, he decries the fact that we have changed that arrangement.

That was without means testing. Since that time, for seven years——

I presume the Deputy is proud of the fact that, when he was chairman of that GP committee, he negotiated four times the charge for people in less disadvantaged areas than in disadvantaged areas. He effectively got a payment——

For seven years people have had these cards. Now, the Government takes them away from pensioners and wants to tax them.

He effectively achieved a payment of €641 for every such person who was on the GP list.

The Government made a bad deal with the doctors and is expecting people to pay.

That was what was negotiated——

By the Government.

——and €85 million of the cost in that regard goes directly to GPs.

Allow the Taoiseach to finish.

On Deputy Gilmore's point, I very much regret that this was a necessary decision. I would like to have been in a position to say the present situation could have continued, but it was not possible in the context of all the decisions that had to be taken——

Why?

——because we have €6.5 billion less in revenue than was anticipated.

Why is that?

In that regard, a very balanced approach was taken which sees expenditure cuts of over €2 billion——

It is a nice mess the Taoiseach got us into.

——tax revenue raising of €2 billion and——

The Taoiseach should at least apologise for his mismanagement.

One moment, please. In addition, there is €1 billion in regard to the capital programme.

I regret that is the situation, but we have sought to achieve that seven of every ten people over 70 will be eligible for that medical card on the means test grounds, based on the data that are available for those who were in receipt of medical card between the age of 66 and 70 and who got the card when they came to the age of 70.

Those over the limit will be cut off.

There will also be people who will be entitled to the GP-only card and those who will be entitled, up to a dual income limit of €1,300 per week, for the €800 payment towards medical expenses.

They will not spend that because they will be afraid to go to the doctor.

I am sure it would be better for everyone if we were in a position where it could continue to be universally applied but that is not possible in the financial circumstances in which we find ourselves. We had to make an adaptation, a change, a modification which still provides more cover.

The Taoiseach is a failure. He got us into this mess.

I say to Deputy Quinn that I am more proud of the achievement of the Government towards the elderly throughout our time in office than anything he was able to achieve in his three budgets.

Brave talk.

Hear, hear.

I asked the Taoiseach two questions, neither of which he has answered. The first was whether there was anything at all in the budget yesterday that caused him any embarrassment.

He answered the question. He said he was not embarrassed.

He clearly is not, which means we have a hard-necked Taoiseach leading a shameless Government.

Hear, hear.

The very least he could do this morning for people who are suffering pain as a result of the budget is to express some degree of remorse, regret and apology to them.

Second, I asked a specific question about elderly people who had health insurance, but who understandably gave it up when they got medical cards in the expectation that they would continue to have them. The Government is now taking the medical card off them and leaving them marooned in a situation where they will now have no medical card and no health insurance.

I checked this morning with the VHI and I am told that a pensioner in those circumstances will have to wait ten years for cover for a pre-existing condition and two years for cover for a new condition. What answer can the Taoiseach give to a person aged 75 or 76 from whom he is taking the medical card, who has stopped paying health insurance? What comfort can he offer to them this morning about their health cover because people are worried and are ringing my office and I am sure other offices also?

Third, if the Taoiseach is so convinced the people of this country accept his budget, will he put it to the test? Will the Taoiseach move the writ for the by-election that is due in Dublin South and put his budget to the test of the people of that constituency at least?

What has Deputy Gilmore done about it?

The Taoiseach should be allowed to speak without interruption.

Put it to the country.

Deputy Bannon wants an election.

The Taoiseach should be allowed to speak without interruption.

I will provide my speech on the budget debate this morning and I outline in it that I acknowledge that sacrifices are being asked of people. I acknowledge that people will be in a worse position next year than they are in this year. That is true. I state that openly and clearly. The reason is that we have to make adaptions to address the situation.