For some time the Labour Party has argued that the restoration of our economic fortunes and the settling of our public finances needs to be done over a period of years, not just in one year. The Labour Party agrees with the objective of getting back to the 3% figure by 2013. Now we must address how we will achieve that. I welcome the Taoiseach's decision yesterday to invite the Irish Congress of Trade Unions back into discussions. I called for this at the weekend and I am glad the Taoiseach responded to that call. I hope those talks will take place soon and that they will avert the prospect of a national strike next Monday or industrial strife or strikes in the future.

The starting point of those discussions will be where the Taoiseach left off in January when he agreed a framework with ICTU which provided for a €2 billion adjustment in the public finances. That was subsequently taken up by the pension levy and the other measures announced in January about which working people are angry. The first item on the agenda will be to determine the target now. Since the Taoiseach agreed the framework of €2 billion with the ICTU the February Exchequer figures have come in and the Taoiseach has decided to have a second budget. When I asked the Taoiseach two weeks ago what the target would be, he said €4.5 billion. The Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, Deputy Smith, intimated on television on Sunday night that it could be as high as €6 billion, and subsequently retracted that. The Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Micheál Martin, stated on "Questions and Answers" on Monday night that nobody should be at all fixated on a target. There have to be some goalposts. The Taoiseach must tell the House what is now the Government's target for 2009 and, in so far as he can, perhaps he might indicate what this means for 2010 and beyond. We must have some clear idea about the target.

I saw, as did Deputy Kenny, what Dr. Ahearne told the Fianna Fáil Parliamentary Party last evening. It is very similar to what he told a Labour Party meeting two or three weeks ago, to which the Government now appears to be subscribing, namely, that the 9.5% borrowing limit is no longer set in stone. The Taoiseach must tell us what is his take on that now.

The third thing he must tell us is what is the trend in the March figures. He seemed to have been caught by surprise in February in respect of the Exchequer returns of that month. He told the House that the first he knew about them was when he heard about them at a Cabinet meeting. That information subsequently caused the Government to bring in a second budget. Presumably, the Taoiseach and his Minister for Finance have been monitoring what has been taking place in March. Can he tell us if the position will be worse by the time we get to budget day because of what is happening with the March returns? By now, well into the third week of the month, the Taoiseach must have some take on these.

The two questions I want the Taoiseach to answer are, first, what the target is for the 2009 budget and, second, what the trend is in the March figures and if that will make the February position worse.

Phone a friend.

The Cabinet is in discussions at present on budgetary issues. We are looking at all the different case scenarios and taking all the advice one would expect us to take. I am not aware of any Taoiseach who came into the House during budgetary discussions to give a progress report, week on week, on how those discussions were going——

We used to have only one budget.

——except to say that we are committed to bringing forward a multi-annual approach that will seek to reduce our deficit to 3% by 2013. That is our objective and in the meantime we are working out the best way by which that adjustment can be made on a yearly basis, taking account of all the situational requirements. I am not in a position, nor would Deputy Gilmore be if he were in my boots, to come into the House on a daily or weekly basis to give progress reports on budgetary discussions. These continue, with the overall objective I outlined. I indicated to the House this morning what our position is in general terms. I am not in a position to go into further detail on that and anybody who ever had anything to do with budgetary discussions would know why. That is the situation.

The Minister for Finance, Deputy Brian Lenihan, will come in on the appointed day, 7 April, with, as a result of those deliberations, a full multi-annual approach which will set out in clear detail a pathway to return order to the public finances as I outlined in general terms today. I am not in a position to give further detail at this point because it would not reflect the considered and final decisions to be taken by Cabinet.

With regard to the social partnership issue, obviously we are trying to build on the framework agreed at the end of January and to see if it is possible to proceed with an agreement on a range of issues. As Members will know, since then we have had a National Economic and Social Council, NESC, report which has deepened the shared analysis about the nature of the problem, the inter-related aspects that are causing it and how we might resolve it. I would proceed to discuss those matters with social partners on that basis, to see if agreement is possible. Having an agreement would be beneficial to the national effort, for everybody collectively to get behind what must be done.

I have seen statements regarding Deputy Gilmore's position. We will finalise our arrangements, come to the House and explain the choices we have made and what is behind the strategy we will outline. We will indicate why it must be set out as it will be, because of the scale and magnitude of the problem we face. Unfortunately, nobody in this country can be immune from the impact of what must be done.

I thank the Taoiseach for explaining to me and to the House what is the normal procedure by which Government formulates a budget. However, we are not in normal circumstances. This is an emergency budget.

Correct.

This is the Taoiseach's fourth attempt since last summer to try to get the public finances right.

All of which the Deputy and his party opposed.

The Taoiseach asked——

None of them worked.

The Taoiseach got it wrong. He did not take our advice

I ask the Taoiseach to hold on for a second. If he wishes to engage in partisan politics——

The Deputy opposed every proposal.

I came into the House this morning and I agreed, as leader of my party, to the target announced by the Taoiseach, namely, that we get back to 3% by 2013. I did that in the interests of the country because it is important to communicate to the outside world that there is political agreement in the country and in this House about the overall economic and public finance objectives we must have.

Hear, hear.

On behalf of my party, I tell the Taoiseach that we will be positive and co-operative in approaching the budgetary process. We ask him for information but he will not tell us what is the target. He will not tell us what will be the macroeconomic projections. He will not tell us the information with regard to the capital programme.

He does not know it.

He will not provide us with the options papers. He will not tell us what the trend is with regard to the March figures, but he will come into the House to say that he will consider everything and then will return and tell us about it on 7 April. That is not engaging in bipartisan politics and it does not respond appropriately to what there is, namely, an offer from the Opposition side of this House to engage constructively with the Government on this issue.

Hear, hear.

What the Taoiseach is engaged in now is a political smokescreen, namely, he has put out the idea and can claim that the Opposition was asked for its ideas. He can ask where were the ideas, but he will end up making all the decisions.

We are in government.

If the Taoiseach wants co-operation from the Opposition parties, he must behave a bit more constructively than he is doing at the moment.

Hear, hear.

If he wishes his discussions with the Irish Congress of Trade Unions, ICTU, to be meaningful and if he wishes to avoid having strikes, strife and public unrest in this country, he must level with the unions about the figures because in January he agreed a figure of €2 billion with them. That figure is now gone, with the levy and the other measures. On day one, when the Taoiseach goes to talk to the unions, he must tell them this because that is the first question they will ask. They will ask what the current figure is, what the Government is trying to achieve and what are the implications for taxation, jobs and pay — all the issues about which they are concerned. If he intends to tell this to ICTU in discussions in Government Buildings, then he should tell this House what is the target.

Hear, hear.

He probably does not know.

This is neither the Taoiseach's money nor the Government's money. The Government is not running a private business on that side of the House but rather it is running our business, the public's business. This is about taxpayers' money and it is about time that the Taoiseach came into this House, levelled with us and with the people of this country about the scale of our problem and let us all get down to dealing with it collectively.

Hear, hear.

Some of those behind the Taoiseach want a unity Government.

I wish to answer some of the Deputy's rhetorical flourishes. First, I am as aware as he is that this is the public's money and it is precisely because that is the case that I am leading a Government which is prepared to take the necessary decisions rather than suggest there is some painless alternative available, based on what the Deputy had to say.

Nobody said that.

That is the first point. The second point is——

I listened to the rhetorical flourishes. My second point is that there has been more information available to the parties and to their spokespersons than would be available even at election time.

That is not true.

That is true. That is the situation. If people wish to have discussions, or if spokespersons wish to meet the Minister for Finance who is charged with bringing forward the budget, that facility is available. At the end of the day we all know the responsibility for bringing forward the budget lies with the Government. The House will have a pre-budget debate today and Members can put forward constructive proposals if they wish and we will listen attentively to them.

The Minister for Finance did not show up yesterday.

However, the idea that my job is to enable others to write the budget is not the position. What we want to see is people putting out what they believe is the way forward. They should put their proposals on the table, just as we will on 7 April. They can either do so beforehand or afterwards. That is the position and any suggestion to the contrary that we are trying to engage in any other arrangement is not true. The Government is trying to deal with a situation which is very significant for the country, which must and will be dealt with. It is our intention to be as fair as possible, recognising that those who take the burden are those who are best able to bear it. However, in saying that, we recognise that nobody will be immune from the burden of adjustment that has to be taken. Everyone will have to share the burden according to his or her ability to carry it. Given that the economy will contract by at least 6.5% this year, in addition to other measures which we have to take in order to achieve budgetary balance to begin the process and which will have a further and adverse impact, we must take all those considerations into account and make careful decisions and this is what the Government intends to do in respect of the targets being outlined.

As regards the social partners, we will outline to them, as we have outlined within the framework, how we can work to help people who need reskilling and those who lose their jobs. A range of areas is outlined in that framework, which we can discuss. However, at the end of the day, the responsibility for bringing forward the budget lies with the Government of the day and that has always been the position. Were Deputy Gilmore in my position, it would be the same for him and I would stand up in the House and give my views as to where I think it should go. Deputy Gilmore said that in some way we are reticent in our duties and he claimed it was our fourth attempt to address the situation. We are making whatever decisions are necessary in the context of a deteriorating situation which is not particular to this country but is hitting every country in the developed world in a way which is unprecedented in our time. Therefore, the suggestion that there is any Minister for Finance or any government that brought forward a budget last September or October who has not had to review and revise the situation is foolish; what country is in a position to do that, given the magnitude of the crisis that is facing us and enveloping the world at the moment? The answer is none. The strongest economies in the world are facing bigger challenges than they did since the Second World War which was nearly 70 years ago. That is the situation. The Deputy can make his rhetorical flourishes and make his little debating points if he wishes but the fact remains and I am entitled to state it as fact that every economy the Government has introduced to bring the public finances under control, to ensure our expenditure came in on line, has been opposed by Deputy Gilmore and his party on every occasion. The people are entitled to know that fact as well.

The Taoiseach is making it up as he goes along.