Has the Taoiseach seen the speech made yesterday by the Archbishop of Dublin, Dr. Diarmuid Martin? The archbishop stated it is no longer tenable to have 92% of the primary schools in the country managed by the Catholic church. He described that situation as an almost monopoly that is an historical hangover which does not reflect the realities of today's Ireland. He went on to suggest that there should be new models for the management of primary schools that would provide for parental choice and which would reflect the diversity of life in today's Ireland.

Archbishop Martin has suggested that there should be dialogue between the State and the Catholic church on this matter. He has also suggested that there should be a national forum to discuss new models for the patronage and management of schools. Does the Taoiseach agree with the archbishop's general assessment? Will he take up the suggestion made by the archbishop for dialogue between the State and the Catholic church on the patronage and management of schools? Will he agree to establish the national forum on education and on the future patronage and management of schools advocated by the archbishop?

I have not had the opportunity to study what Archbishop Martin had to say yesterday, although I recall him speaking on this matter before when dealing with fast developing areas in Dublin, for example. He had much to say about that, which would be broadly welcomed. I had the opportunity to meet with Church of Ireland archbishops this week on church-State dialogue, something with which I am anxious to continue. An opportunity to meet with members of the Catholic hierarchy could include some discussion on this matter as well.

I welcome Archbishop Martin's general approach and indication of his views on these matters. Dialogue can best be conducted on the basis of mutual respect. The question of the right to denominational education remains an important part of the Catholic church's view, and the view of churches in general. That was reiterated by the minority churches and the Church of Ireland archbishops who met me this week. From reports of what Archbishop Martin had to say, he spoke about this being a deliberative and gradual process, something that needs to be examined and discussed with thoroughness. Having studied what he had to say and obtained the views of the Minister concerned, I will take up the opportunity to see what way I can proceed with this matter in terms of church-State dialogue.

We have had church-State dialogue for some time. The Taoiseach will recall that his predecessor put in place a process for the holding of church-State discussions and talks of a general nature. This is not the first time that Archbishop Martin has expressed these views on the patronage and management of schools. It would appear to me that he is far ahead of the Government on this issue. For example, he was able to outline in his speech yesterday the details of ownership of schools and school properties, something which the Minister of Education and Science was unable to provide in a reply to a Dáil question tabled by Deputy Quinn a few weeks ago. He has specifically suggested a mechanism for the conduct of talks about schools, and that is the idea of a national forum on education, education management and patronage. Will the Government agree to the setting up of such a forum? It would allow for discussions to take place in a reasoned way and over a period of time between the State, the churches, the various educational interests, the various bodies that are currently patrons of schools or that wish to be patrons, and which can be open to hearing the views of the different stakeholders in the education system, such as parents, teachers and so on.

The suggestion of a national education forum by the Archbishop of Dublin is very progressive. I ask the Taoiseach to agree to it and to set it up as soon as possible.

As I have already stated, I will study the archbishop's speech, but I have not yet had a chance to do so. I already acknowledged in my first reply many of the things that Archbishop Martin has had to say on these issues, and I welcome them. There have been developments in the governance of our school system over time which have seen a much greater degree of parental representation and involvement in school management. This has not been a static process, as perhaps has been suggested. Various State models on patronage and school management have been brought forward, depending on different circumstances.

As chief patron of Catholic schools in the Dublin archdiocese, the archbishop's openness to consider different governance structures has been refreshing. That openness is obviously still consistent with his aims on these matters. It is only on the basis of mutually respectful dialogue that progress will be made in this area. I emphasise once again that this is a matter than can be examined under church-State dialogue, and I will soon have an opportunity to meet members of the Catholic hierarchy. Deputy Quinn seems to have a problem with that.

The Taoiseach is kicking the issue to touch.

I am not kicking it to touch. What I am not doing is going straight to the Deputy's position. I am ensuring that we will proceed with these matters in an appropriate way——

The Taoiseach is not proceeding.

Excuse me. A speech was made yesterday and I have not had the opportunity yet to read it. I do not make up policy on the basis of not having read what a person has to say.

What is the Taoiseach's policy?

The Taoiseach, without interruption.

I have indicated my general disposition on these matters. I have welcomed much of what has been said, and I have said that the Government will consider this matter and proceed. I am sorry if we do not make it up on the hoof overnight.